Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -LadySycamore <ladysy…@nevermind.com> wrote in message <news:6Gfcc.11181$NL4.7669@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>… > BradTheDad wrote: > > Hey everyone, I’m new here, and notice that not many people seem to post on > > this newsgroup.  I’m just wondering how many people there are that actually > > hang around.  So, if you’re reading this, please post something just to say > > hello.  Thanks > > Brad > > PS – I’m here! :-P > Hello there! LS, checking in. > Co-Administrator of "Dialyze.org" > http://dialyze.org/forums/index.php

I’m new, but I guess I’m here. iteach "begin with the end in mind" -covey

Response:

I just joined, does that count? Mike "BradTheDad" <BradTheDadM…@sbcglobalMUNG.net> wrote in message

news:X%Bac.3682$Jm4.2147@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com… > Hey everyone, I’m new here, and notice that not many people seem to post on > this newsgroup.  I’m just wondering how many people there are that actually > hang around.  So, if you’re reading this, please post something just to say > hello.  Thanks > Brad > PS – I’m here! :-P

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.627 / Virus Database: 402 – Release Date: 3/16/2004

Response:

Hey everyone, I’m new here, and notice that not many people seem to post on this newsgroup.  I’m just wondering how many people there are that actually hang around.  So, if you’re reading this, please post something just to say hello.  Thanks Brad PS – I’m here! :-P

Response:

"BradTheDad" <BradTheDadM…@sbcglobalMUNG.net> wrote: >Hey everyone, I’m new here, and notice that not many people seem to post on >this newsgroup.  I’m just wondering how many people there are that actually >hang around.  So, if you’re reading this, please post something just to say >hello.  Thanks >Brad >PS – I’m here! :-P

Present — Sleepalot   aa #1385

Response:

BradTheDad wrote: > Hey everyone, I’m new here, and notice that not many people seem to post on > this newsgroup.  I’m just wondering how many people there are that actually > hang around.  So, if you’re reading this, please post something just to say > hello.  Thanks > Brad > PS – I’m here! :-P

Hello there! LS, checking in. Co-Administrator of "Dialyze.org" http://dialyze.org/forums/index.php — ~LadySycamore~ Usenet is not sanitized for your protection.

Response:

Me too!  Cindy T "Sleepalot" <sleep…@fsmail.net> wrote in message

news:ftlo60h26ufktm1aufqi23vltijfsb13uf@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "BradTheDad" <BradTheDadM…@sbcglobalMUNG.net> wrote: > >Hey everyone, I’m new here, and notice that not many people seem to post on > >this newsgroup.  I’m just wondering how many people there are that actually > >hang around.  So, if you’re reading this, please post something just to say > >hello.  Thanks > >Brad > >PS – I’m here! :-P > Present > — > Sleepalot   aa #1385

Response:

In article <6Gfcc.11181$NL4.7…@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,  LadySycamore <ladysy…@nevermind.com> wrote: > BradTheDad wrote: > > Hey everyone, I’m new here, and notice that not many people seem to post on > > this newsgroup.  I’m just wondering how many people there are that actually > > hang around.  So, if you’re reading this, please post something just to say > > hello.  Thanks > > Brad > > PS – I’m here! :-P > Hello there! LS, checking in.

REP with a trifecta – advanced FSGS, very early diabetic nephropathy and recurrent renal calculi. And I’m a chick. — "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." – Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

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Question:

Nobody posts anymore.  Is there another one people are using instead?

Response:

In article <102iocat9p72…@corp.supernews.com>,  "Jason Black" <jgblack-nos…@cableone.net> wrote: > Nobody posts anymore.  Is there another one people are using instead?

This has been a low-traffic group, at least during th three years I’ve been reading it. I think – and I could be wrong – that many use the transplant mailing list and/or Pierre’s IgAN list. I’ve got FSGS and early diabetic nephropathy and am not in full failure yet, so I’m here. — "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." – Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Subject: Possible Reasons for Recurrent Kidney Infections? >From: REP r…@inanna.com >Date: 11/14/2003 1:59 AM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <bp2600$1jh79…@ID-180048.news.uni-berlin.de> >I know internet diagnoses aren’t possible  - just looking for ideas to >ask my doctor about. >I am a 38 year old woman with advanced FSGS and very early diabetic >nephropathy (per biopsy) with 10g proteinuria and function normal. >Biopsy showed very extensive epithelial foot cell process effacement >(50% – 95%). I have recurring bouts of inflammation in my small >intestine (seen on CT) that is currently being called mild Crohn’s, but >no solid dx. My HbA1c is 5%; average BG 92 mm/dL. No neuropathies at >all, including any that prevent me from voiding my bladder; no >structural abnormalities in the entire urinary tract. >I ended a ten day course of Biaxin on 11/10 for a URI which had been >unresponsive to Avelox; I had been taking Cipro for five of those days >for a skin infection. UA on 10/31 was negative for WBC, nitrite and >bacteria. Dipped strongly positive for WBC, RBC and nitrites 11/12. >This is the fifth kidney infection I’ve had this year; and the first one >following so closely after being treated with any antibiotic. I have >been having recurrent kidney infections for 20+ years, usually two a >year, but recently have been having more and more of them, this year >being the worst. The infections start in the kidneys; I have no lower >tract symptoms at all and nephrologist has found no evidence of these >being bladder infections gone wild. Symptoms are always flank pain, >nausea, abdominal pain, high fever/chills and slightly reduced urine >output (I’m guessing from the fever). When cultured, they’re always e. >coli and resistant to just about everything (now even Cipro). >Internist and nephrologist don’t know why, but think it may have >something to do with the small bowel problems (internist also thinks god >hates me). They have no suggestions for what I could do to cut back on >the number of infections since they don’t know what’s causing them, and >are delighted when I ask questions, even real dumb ass ones, so – >anything I should ask about?

Since elevated iron levels have been shown to be associated with BOTH kidney problems and diabetes I would have my doctor refer me to someone well versed in the problems of excess oxidation / rust and iron overload. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Subject: Re: Possible Reasons for Recurrent Kidney Infections? >From: REP r…@inanna.com >Date: 11/14/2003 7:37 AM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <bp2ppr$1jn3k…@ID-180048.news.uni-berlin.de> >In article <20031114090931.11646.00000…@mb-m22.aol.com>, > ironjust…@aol.comdoe (doe) wrote: >> >Subject: Re: Possible Reasons for Recurrent Kidney Infections? >> >From: REP r…@inanna.com >> >Date: 11/14/2003 6:36 AM Mountain Standard Time >> >Message-id: <bp2m7h$1k6l5…@ID-180048.news.uni-berlin.de> >> >In article <20031114080058.11646.00000…@mb-m22.aol.com>, >> > ironjust…@aol.comdoe (doe) wrote: >> >> Since elevated iron levels have been shown to be associated with BOTH >> >kidney >> >> problems and diabetes I would have my doctor refer me to someone well >> >versed >> >> in >> >> the problems of excess oxidation / rust and iron overload. >> >Been tested; am somewhat iron deficient. NEXT! >> Iron deficient .. ? >Slightly. ‘Circulating’ is low-normal; ’stores’ are low. >> Bleeding internally .. ? >> Malabsorption .. ? >> Those are the ONLY reasons a person would be iron deficient. >Malabsorption and internal bleeding. (See where I have a tentative dx of >Crohn’s; the slight iron deficiency is one reason I have that as a >current dx). Also have ovarian cysts that bleed often, and I have >microhematuria most of the time. >And I don’t have celiac disease, either.

Crohn’s is genetically linked to iron overload {hemochromatosis]. HLA Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Subject: Re: Possible Reasons for Recurrent Kidney Infections? >From: REP r…@inanna.com >Date: 11/14/2003 6:36 AM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <bp2m7h$1k6l5…@ID-180048.news.uni-berlin.de> >In article <20031114080058.11646.00000…@mb-m22.aol.com>, > ironjust…@aol.comdoe (doe) wrote: >> Since elevated iron levels have been shown to be associated with BOTH >kidney >> problems and diabetes I would have my doctor refer me to someone well >versed >> in >> the problems of excess oxidation / rust and iron overload. >Been tested; am somewhat iron deficient. NEXT!

Iron deficient .. ? You starving ..? Bleeding internally .. ? Malabsorption .. ? Those are the ONLY reasons a person would be iron deficient. Since you didn’t mention you have any of those .. I will assume you don’t .. and therefore any ‘iron deficiency’ would most likely BE .. ‘anemia of chronic disease’ .. which the body produces in order to protect itself {immune system response] and therefore is not technically .. iron deficient anemia. The doctor has to do a little bit more than the standard blood test in order to ascertain TRUE iron deficiency. Iron FEEDS infection .. PROVEN in many studies .. and iron sequestering is the FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE in the bodies immune system response. Lactoferrin .. the first line of defense .. an iron sequestering protein .. when saturated is rendered .. useless . Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Response:

In article <20031114090931.11646.00000…@mb-m22.aol.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - ironjust…@aol.comdoe (doe) wrote: > >Subject: Re: Possible Reasons for Recurrent Kidney Infections? > >From: REP r…@inanna.com > >Date: 11/14/2003 6:36 AM Mountain Standard Time > >Message-id: <bp2m7h$1k6l5…@ID-180048.news.uni-berlin.de> > >In article <20031114080058.11646.00000…@mb-m22.aol.com>, > > ironjust…@aol.comdoe (doe) wrote: > >> Since elevated iron levels have been shown to be associated with BOTH > >kidney > >> problems and diabetes I would have my doctor refer me to someone well > >versed > >> in > >> the problems of excess oxidation / rust and iron overload. > >Been tested; am somewhat iron deficient. NEXT! > Iron deficient .. ?

Slightly. ‘Circulating’ is low-normal; ’stores’ are low. > Bleeding internally .. ? > Malabsorption .. ? > Those are the ONLY reasons a person would be iron deficient.

Malabsorption and internal bleeding. (See where I have a tentative dx of Crohn’s; the slight iron deficiency is one reason I have that as a current dx). Also have ovarian cysts that bleed often, and I have microhematuria most of the time. And I don’t have celiac disease, either. — "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." – Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Response:

In article <20031114080058.11646.00000…@mb-m22.aol.com>,  ironjust…@aol.comdoe (doe) wrote: > Since elevated iron levels have been shown to be associated with BOTH kidney > problems and diabetes I would have my doctor refer me to someone well versed > in > the problems of excess oxidation / rust and iron overload.

Been tested; am somewhat iron deficient. NEXT! — "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." – Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Response:

I know internet diagnoses aren’t possible  - just looking for ideas to ask my doctor about. I am a 38 year old woman with advanced FSGS and very early diabetic nephropathy (per biopsy) with 10g proteinuria and function normal. Biopsy showed very extensive epithelial foot cell process effacement (50% – 95%). I have recurring bouts of inflammation in my small intestine (seen on CT) that is currently being called mild Crohn’s, but no solid dx. My HbA1c is 5%; average BG 92 mm/dL. No neuropathies at all, including any that prevent me from voiding my bladder; no structural abnormalities in the entire urinary tract. I ended a ten day course of Biaxin on 11/10 for a URI which had been unresponsive to Avelox; I had been taking Cipro for five of those days for a skin infection. UA on 10/31 was negative for WBC, nitrite and bacteria. Dipped strongly positive for WBC, RBC and nitrites 11/12. This is the fifth kidney infection I’ve had this year; and the first one following so closely after being treated with any antibiotic. I have been having recurrent kidney infections for 20+ years, usually two a year, but recently have been having more and more of them, this year being the worst. The infections start in the kidneys; I have no lower tract symptoms at all and nephrologist has found no evidence of these being bladder infections gone wild. Symptoms are always flank pain, nausea, abdominal pain, high fever/chills and slightly reduced urine output (I’m guessing from the fever). When cultured, they’re always e. coli and resistant to just about everything (now even Cipro). Internist and nephrologist don’t know why, but think it may have something to do with the small bowel problems (internist also thinks god hates me). They have no suggestions for what I could do to cut back on the number of infections since they don’t know what’s causing them, and are delighted when I ask questions, even real dumb ass ones, so – anything I should ask about? — "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." – Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

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Question:

I have a friend who is currently aged 55 and has had Type I since he was a baby. He has been looking after his diabetes diligently and so far has no complications, never mind dying…. Henry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may sound like an odd question , but if one has had diabetes for 38 years (type 1) and is on a ac inhibitor also blood pressure pills how many years will go by before things get really bad . I know that one doesn’t like to talk about things like that ,but  it does bring things into perspective.

Response:

This may sound like an odd question , but if one has had diabetes for 38 years (type 1) and is on a ac inhibitor also blood pressure pills how many years will go by before things get really bad . I know that one doesn’t like to talk about things like that ,but  it does bring things into perspective.

        This is an impossible question to answer.   Depends on how good your treatment has been up till now and how good it will be from now on. Then you can complicate that with other genetic and environmental factors. The closest thing to an answer is that we each need to normalize our bgs in hopes of reducing our risk to non-diabetic levels.         So now you have to answer the question, if a non-diabetic person is now 38 years old, how much longer will he live?   It depends on so many things.                         E

Response:

well, if you go skydiving without a ‘chute, I’d say your life span is directly influenced by the date of your next jump.  Otherwise, who knows?  Most of us don’t know when I time is up.  Life presents unexpected turns.  You just go with the flow, and hope your life is both long AND enjoyable. dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may sound like an odd question , but if one has had diabetes for 38 years (type 1) and is on a ac inhibitor also blood pressure pills how many years will go by before things get really bad . I know that one doesn’t like to talk about things like that ,but  it does bring things into perspective.

Response:

I have had Type 1 for 36 yrs. I got when I was 6 yrs old. Is something wrong with you now? Did you get some bad news recently? — Steve Type 1 DM since 1967 MiniMed 508 since early 2002 Toronto, ON Canada

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may sound like an odd question , but if one has had diabetes for 38 years (type 1) and is on a ac inhibitor also blood pressure pills how many years will go by before things get really bad . I know that one doesn’t like to talk about things like that ,but  it does bring things into perspective.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may sound like an odd question , but if one has had diabetes for 38 years (type 1) and is on a ac inhibitor also blood pressure pills how many years will go by before things get really bad . I know that one doesn’t like to talk about things like that ,but  it does bring things into perspective. Why should we not talk about that?? Just a cultural thing, some societies and ppl are not bothered at all. Now, your question. It is a bit like *how long is a piece of string?* and I don`t know what damage dm has done to you already. IF none, it is possible that you would go on for another 38 years, otoh you might get knocked down by a car tomorrow, live, but be in a wheelchair. In addition, what else are you doing apart from the meds you mentioned? After 38 years I`m sure you know better than to leave it all to the meds (not intended to be sarcastic) but you didn`t actually?

I’m now taking some cholesterol and blood pressure medication. Not unusual for a guy my age: I figure the diabetes may have slapped 10-20 years off my total lifespan, instead of leaving me a lifespan of only another 10-20 years as my dad (the doctor!) expected. So since my grandpa died at 96, I figure I may last a while longer. And since I’m taking *preventive* meds that weren’t available for my parents, as part of testing and treatment that werent’ available for them, I may last as long as my dad. Late 80’s, anyone? That would give me a diabetic experience of roughly 80 years. And we have folks like Guy who’ve survived a great deal of fun and games in diabetic treatment….

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This may sound like an odd question , but if one has had diabetes for 38 years (type 1) and is on a ac inhibitor also blood pressure pills how many years will go by before things get really bad . I know that one doesn’t like to talk about things like that ,but  it does bring things into perspective.

Why should we not talk about that?? Just a cultural thing, some societies and ppl are not bothered at all. Now, your question. It is a bit like *how long is a piece of string?* and I don`t know what damage dm has done to you already. IF none, it is possible that you would go on for another 38 years, otoh you might get knocked down by a car tomorrow, live, but be in a wheelchair. In addition, what else are you doing apart from the meds you mentioned? After 38 years I`m sure you know better than to leave it all to the meds (not intended to be sarcastic) but you didn`t actually? Al.

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This may sound like an odd question , but if one has had diabetes for 38 years (type 1) and is on a ac inhibitor also blood pressure pills how many years will go by before things get really bad . I know that one doesn’t like to talk about things like that ,but  it does bring things into perspective.

The Joslin Clinic gives award certificates for those with diabetes over 50 years (Type I) They have given out lots of awards and are giving out even more these days. My father had diabetes for 66 years and with exercise, proper diet, and good medical care he managed even without intensive control for the first 60. Of course there were complications: blindness and neuropathy… Ed

Response:

This may sound like an odd question , but if one has had diabetes for 38 years (type 1) and is on a ac inhibitor also blood pressure pills how many years will go by before things get really bad . I know that one doesn’t like to talk about things like that ,but  it does bring things into perspective.

I am a T2 for nearly four years with excellent control (HbA1c of 5.5% or lower) since diagnosis and within two years I had already developed very early diabetic nephropathy. I have a far more serious primary kidney disease (serious in terms of damage done to to my kidneys, not in the sense of a more serious disease), and the nephrologist thinks this is why I am showing signs of DN on biopsy so early on. Because of the primary kidney disease, I was tested quite regularly for diabetes, and up until 2000, I didn’t have it. At any rate, I’ll be fortunate if I see out the decade not on dialysis. In other words, it varies with each person. — "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." – Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Response:

This may sound like an odd question , but if one has had diabetes for 38 years (type 1) and is on a ac inhibitor also blood pressure pills how many years will go by before things get really bad . I know that one doesn’t like to talk about things like that ,but  it does bring things into perspective.

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Question:

Rick, I hadn’t seen your article. Excellent, as usual, and balanced.  Keep up the good work. WCB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reddy, Good to hear from you. I continue to be interested in the new chromium studies, but cannot help but have reservations about the objectivity of research sponsored by a company, Nutrition 21, that has such a strong financial interest in chromium picolinate. In the past I have interviewed Dr. Cefalu, but my recent article on chromium, http://www.mendosa.com/chromium.htm , relied on interviews with Dr. Vincent, who has no taint of support from industry. I still don’t see any reason to revise the conclusions of my article on chromium. — Rick Mendosa: A Writer on the Web: www.mendosa.com Office: 238 Coronado Drive, Aptos, CA 95003-4011 Rick, These are labeling changes after the results of the IDNT and RENAAL trials were released. Most of us were already using the drugs for this before the trials were released. The big question is where they are better than ACE inhibitors or not. There have not been any head to head studies of ACE vs ARB for this indication. I actually find Jake’s info on chromium more intriguing. I met the people from "Nutrition 21" who had a booth at the ADA meetings in June. They told me about some of the upcoming stuff to be presented at the IDF this year in Paris. As I recall one of the papers was co-authored by William T Cefalu MD, who is a very reputable young diabetes researcher, from U of Vermont. He is a good speaker, and sounds like a Cajun when you meet him. I heard something (perhaps not accurate) about him moving back to Louisiana to join Pennington Biomedical Research Center at LSU. Perhaps you can track him down at Pennington or U Vermont Medical School for an interesting interview. http://www.nutrition21.com/Newsroom/viewnews.aspx?id=47 Nutrition 21 makes a chromium picolinate / biotin capsule (Diachrome) and plain chromium picolinate (Chromax)  that seem to be well tolerated. This company is unusual in the health food industry in that they are really putting some bucks into research, and trying to demonstrate that there is a benefit to chromium. Good luck, Reddy Biggs Peanutjake, What is the source of this very interesting information? Searching the Web and news with Google doesn’t turn it up. Nor does searching Medscape or Medscape DrugInfo. Likewise searching FDA.gov. Rick Mendosa: A Writer on the Web: www.mendosa.com Office: 238 Coronado Drive, Aptos, CA 95003-4011

Response:

Reddy, Good to hear from you. I continue to be interested in the new chromium studies, but cannot help but have reservations about the objectivity of research sponsored by a company, Nutrition 21, that has such a strong financial interest in chromium picolinate. In the past I have interviewed Dr. Cefalu, but my recent article on chromium, http://www.mendosa.com/chromium.htm , relied on interviews with Dr. Vincent, who has no taint of support from industry. I still don’t see any reason to revise the conclusions of my article on chromium. — Rick Mendosa: A Writer on the Web: www.mendosa.com Office: 238 Coronado Drive, Aptos, CA 95003-4011 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rick, These are labeling changes after the results of the IDNT and RENAAL trials were released. Most of us were already using the drugs for this before the trials were released. The big question is where they are better than ACE inhibitors or not. There have not been any head to head studies of ACE vs ARB for this indication. I actually find Jake’s info on chromium more intriguing. I met the people from "Nutrition 21" who had a booth at the ADA meetings in June. They told me about some of the upcoming stuff to be presented at the IDF this year in Paris. As I recall one of the papers was co-authored by William T Cefalu MD, who is a very reputable young diabetes researcher, from U of Vermont. He is a good speaker, and sounds like a Cajun when you meet him. I heard something (perhaps not accurate) about him moving back to Louisiana to join Pennington Biomedical Research Center at LSU. Perhaps you can track him down at Pennington or U Vermont Medical School for an interesting interview. http://www.nutrition21.com/Newsroom/viewnews.aspx?id=47 Nutrition 21 makes a chromium picolinate / biotin capsule (Diachrome) and plain chromium picolinate (Chromax)  that seem to be well tolerated. This company is unusual in the health food industry in that they are really putting some bucks into research, and trying to demonstrate that there is a benefit to chromium. Good luck, Reddy Biggs Peanutjake, What is the source of this very interesting information? Searching the Web and news with Google doesn’t turn it up. Nor does searching Medscape or Medscape DrugInfo. Likewise searching FDA.gov. Rick Mendosa: A Writer on the Web: www.mendosa.com Office: 238 Coronado Drive, Aptos, CA 95003-4011

Response:

Rick, These are labeling changes after the results of the IDNT and RENAAL trials were released. Most of us were already using the drugs for this before the trials were released. The big question is where they are better than ACE inhibitors or not. There have not been any head to head studies of ACE vs ARB for this indication. I actually find Jake’s info on chromium more intriguing. I met the people from "Nutrition 21" who had a booth at the ADA meetings in June. They told me about some of the upcoming stuff to be presented at the IDF this year in Paris. As I recall one of the papers was co-authored by William T Cefalu MD, who is a very reputable young diabetes researcher, from U of Vermont. He is a good speaker, and sounds like a Cajun when you meet him. I heard something (perhaps not accurate) about him moving back to Louisiana to join Pennington Biomedical Research Center at LSU. Perhaps you can track him down at Pennington or U Vermont Medical School for an interesting interview. http://www.nutrition21.com/Newsroom/viewnews.aspx?id=47 Nutrition 21 makes a chromium picolinate / biotin capsule (Diachrome) and plain chromium picolinate (Chromax)  that seem to be well tolerated. This company is unusual in the health food industry in that they are really putting some bucks into research, and trying to demonstrate that there is a benefit to chromium. Good luck, Reddy Biggs

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peanutjake, What is the source of this very interesting information? Searching the Web and news with Google doesn’t turn it up. Nor does searching Medscape or Medscape DrugInfo. Likewise searching FDA.gov. Rick Mendosa: A Writer on the Web: www.mendosa.com Office: 238 Coronado Drive, Aptos, CA 95003-4011

Response:

Peanutjake, What is the source of this very interesting information? Searching the Web and news with Google doesn’t turn it up. Nor does searching Medscape or Medscape DrugInfo. Likewise searching FDA.gov. Rick Mendosa: A Writer on the Web: www.mendosa.com Office: 238 Coronado Drive, Aptos, CA 95003-4011

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/442812_3 PJ

Response:

Peanutjake, What is the source of this very interesting information? Searching the Web and news with Google doesn’t turn it up. Nor does searching Medscape or Medscape DrugInfo. Likewise searching FDA.gov. Rick Mendosa: A Writer on the Web: www.mendosa.com Office: 238 Coronado Drive, Aptos, CA 95003-4011

US FDA NOTES Avapro (irbesartan) Tablets Manufacturer: Bristol-Myers Squibb Drug Approval Classification: Supplemental New Drug Application (Approval New Indication:Avapro (irbesartan) is indicated for the treatment of

diabetic nephropathy with an elevated serum creatinine and proteinuria ( 300 mg/day) in patients with type 2 diabetes and hypertension. In this population, Avapro reduces the rate of progression

of nephropathy as measured by the occurrence of doubling of serum creatinine or end-stage renal

disease (need for dialysis or renal transplantation). The FDA approved Cozaar (losartan potassium) for the supplemental

indication for the treatment of patients with type 2 diabetic nephropathy (see Cozaar below). Dosing: The recommended target maintenance dose for the treatment of

diabetic nephropathy in patients with type 2 diabetes is 300 mg once daily. There are no data on

the clinical effects of lower doses of Avapro on diabetic nephropathy. Clinical Summary: Previously to this new supplemental indication, Avapro

was indicated for the treatment of hypertension. The FDA approval is based on results from the Irbesartan Diabetic

Nephropathy Trial (IDNT). IDNT studied 1715 patients with high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, and

evidence of kidney disease. Patients were randomized to irbesartan 300 mg daily or amlodipine 10 mg

daily or placebo. Patients in the irbesartan group had a 20% lower risk of progression of their

nephropathy or death than that of the placebo (control) group (P = .02) and a 23% lower risk than the

group treated with amlodipine (P = .006). Adverse Effects: No new adverse events were reported in the Avapro-treated patients in IDNT. Patients on Avapro experienced more orthostatic symptoms and increases in

serum potassium vs the control group. References Avapro (Irbesartan) labeling. Lewis EJ, Hunsicker LG, Clarke WR, et al, for the Collaborative Study

Group. Renoprotective effect of the angiotensin-receptor antagonist irbesartan in patients with

nephropathy due to type 2 diabetes. N Engl J Med. 2001;345:851-860. Abstract Medscape DrugInfo Avapro (irbesartan) Cozaar (losartan potassium) Tablets Manufacturer: Merck & Co, Inc Drug Approval Classification: Supplemental New Drug Application (Approval New Indication:Cozaar (losartan potassium) is indicated for the treatment

of diabetic nephropathy with an elevated serum creatinine and proteinuria (urinary albumin to

creatinine ratio /= 300 mg/g) in patients with type 2 diabetes and a history of hypertension. In this

population, Cozaar reduces the rate of progression of nephropathy as measured by the occurrence of

doubling of serum creatinine or end-stage renal disease (need for dialysis or renal transplantation) The FDA approved Avapro (irbesartan) for the supplemental indication for

the treatment of patients with type 2 diabetic nephropathy (see Avapro above) Dosing: For the treatment of type 2 diabetic nephropathy, the usual

starting dose is 50 mg once daily. The dose could be increased to 100 mg once daily based on blood

pressure response. Cozaar may be administered with insulin and other commonly used hypoglycemic agents (eg, sulfonylureas, glitazones, and glucosidase inhibitors). Clinical Summary: Prior to this new supplemental indication, Cozaar was

indicated for the treatment of hypertension. The basis for approval of Cozaar for the treatment of nephropathy in

patients with type 2 diabetes is the Reduction of Endpoints in NIDDM with the Angiotensin II Receptor

Antagonist Losartan (RENAAL) study. RENAAL was a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind,

multicenter study in 1513 patients with type 2 diabetes with nephropathy. Patients were randomized to Cozaar

50 mg daily or placebo. Patients were followed for 3 1/2 years. Patients treated with Cozaar had a

16% risk reduction in the primary end point, defined as the time to first occurrence of any 1 of the following events: doubling of serum creatinine, end-stage renal disease (need for dialysis

or transplantation), or death. Cozaar reduced the occurrence of sustained doubling of serum

creatinine by 25% and end-stage renal disease by 29%. No effect on mortality was seen in the RENAAL study. Adverse Effects: No new adverse effects were seen with Cozaar in the RENAAL study. The discontinuation rate due to adverse events was 19% for Cozaar-treated

patients vs 24% in placebo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – patients. Reference Cozaar (losartan potassium) labeling. Medscape DrugInfo Cozaar (losartan potassium)

Response:

US FDA NOTES Avapro (irbesartan) Tablets Manufacturer: Bristol-Myers Squibb New Indication:Avapro (irbesartan) is indicated for the treatment of diabetic nephropathy with an elevated serum creatinine and proteinuria ( 300 mg/day) in patients with type 2 diabetes and hypertension. In this population, Avapro reduces the rate of progression of nephropathy as measured by the occurrence of doubling of serum creatinine or end-stage renal disease (need for dialysis or renal transplantation). The FDA approved Cozaar (losartan potassium) for the supplemental indication for the treatment of patients with type 2 diabetic nephropathy (see Cozaar below). Dosing: The recommended target maintenance dose for the treatment of diabetic nephropathy in patients with type 2 diabetes is 300 mg once daily. There are no data on the clinical effects of lower doses of Avapro on diabetic nephropathy. Clinical Summary: Previously to this new supplemental indication, Avapro was indicated for the treatment of hypertension. The FDA approval is based on results from the Irbesartan Diabetic Nephropathy Trial (IDNT). IDNT studied 1715 patients with high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, and evidence of kidney disease. Patients were randomized to irbesartan 300 mg daily or amlodipine 10 mg daily or placebo. Patients in the irbesartan group had a 20% lower risk of progression of their nephropathy or death than that of the placebo (control) group (P = .02) and a 23% lower risk than the group treated with amlodipine (P = .006). Adverse Effects: No new adverse events were reported in the Avapro-treated patients in IDNT. Patients on Avapro experienced more orthostatic symptoms and increases in serum potassium vs the control group. References Avapro (Irbesartan) labeling. Lewis EJ, Hunsicker LG, Clarke WR, et al, for the Collaborative Study Group. Renoprotective effect of the angiotensin-receptor antagonist irbesartan in patients with nephropathy due to type 2 diabetes. N Engl J Med. 2001;345:851-860. Abstract Medscape DrugInfo Avapro (irbesartan) Cozaar (losartan potassium) Tablets Manufacturer: Merck & Co, Inc New Indication:Cozaar (losartan potassium) is indicated for the treatment of diabetic nephropathy with an elevated serum creatinine and proteinuria (urinary albumin to creatinine ratio /= 300 mg/g) in patients with type 2 diabetes and a history of hypertension. In this population, Cozaar reduces the rate of progression of nephropathy as measured by the occurrence of doubling of serum creatinine or end-stage renal disease (need for dialysis or renal transplantation) The FDA approved Avapro (irbesartan) for the supplemental indication for the treatment of patients with type 2 diabetic nephropathy (see Avapro above) Dosing: For the treatment of type 2 diabetic nephropathy, the usual starting dose is 50 mg once daily. The dose could be increased to 100 mg once daily based on blood pressure response. Cozaar may be administered with insulin and other commonly used hypoglycemic agents (eg, sulfonylureas, glitazones, and glucosidase inhibitors). Clinical Summary: Prior to this new supplemental indication, Cozaar was indicated for the treatment of hypertension. The basis for approval of Cozaar for the treatment of nephropathy in patients with type 2 diabetes is the Reduction of Endpoints in NIDDM with the Angiotensin II Receptor Antagonist Losartan (RENAAL) study. RENAAL was a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, multicenter study in 1513 patients with type 2 diabetes with nephropathy. Patients were randomized to Cozaar 50 mg daily or placebo. Patients were followed for 3 1/2 years. Patients treated with Cozaar had a 16% risk reduction in the primary end point, defined as the time to first occurrence of any 1 of the following events: doubling of serum creatinine, end-stage renal disease (need for dialysis or transplantation), or death. Cozaar reduced the occurrence of sustained doubling of serum creatinine by 25% and end-stage renal disease by 29%. No effect on mortality was seen in the RENAAL study. Adverse Effects: No new adverse effects were seen with Cozaar in the RENAAL study. The discontinuation rate due to adverse events was 19% for Cozaar-treated patients vs 24% in placebo patients. Reference Cozaar (losartan potassium) labeling. Medscape DrugInfo Cozaar (losartan potassium)

Response:

Chromium Supplements Appear to Improve Glucose Sensitivity in Diabetics Ed Susman Aug. 29, 2003 (Paris) – The dietary supplement chromium picolinate may help patients with type 2 diabetes control their disease, according to a series of presentations here at the 18th International Diabetes Foundation Congress. The presentations described the genetic and molecular mechanisms of how chromium picolinate reduces glucose resistance, as well as how the supplement can reduce glucose levels. "I’m not diabetic," said Dr. Zhong Wong, MD, research assistant professor at the University of Vermont in Burlington, "but I sometimes have higher glucose levels that I want. I have been taking chromium myself because I think it helps." Dr. Wong used gene microarray GeneChip technology from Affymetrix to determine which genes are upregulated and downregulated in human skeletal muscle. "That gene expression analysis suggests that chromium picolinate may down-regulate genes in human skeletal muscle that are potentially involved in cellular insulin action, specifically tumor necrosis factor (TNF)AIP6 and ubiquitin-associated proteins," he said those proteins are implicated in dysfunctional insulin production. "We think that chromium picolinate can influence a person’s diabetic treatment so that levels of insulin required may be reduced," he said. In another presentation, researchers from the Netherlands studied the effects of chromium picolinate intake on metabolic control in 52 patients with type 2 diabetes, in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study. The six-month study enrolled patients who had hemoglobin (HbA1c) levels greater than 8 percent and were prescribed more than 50 IU of insulin per day. In addition to their usual oral antidiabetic medication, patients were also given 500

Question:

Is one method of measuring protein superior to the other, do you know? Laurie Type 1 Since 1968

No, I really know little about this subject.  My daughter (the one with Type 1 diabetes) is in college and now goes to endo appointments herself.  I don’t know about her microalbumin levels, but I do know that her lipid levels have changed drastically over time and that the endo was very pleased at the last reading. I think it is a little odd that blood pressure is related to microalbumin levels but ACE inhibitors are not. Would measuring microalbumin levels be kind of like checking random blood sugars that can be up or down just depending on some short term things, whereas creatinine clearance be more like HBA1C (longer term indicator)? BL "As the waves pass the rock, their shape is changed.  There is a hologram of the rock within the wave that comes forward and crashes on the beach, then there’s a reflected wave back."   Ralph Abraham   "I’d like to learn to windsurf."  BL

Response:

Here is a useful and hopeful study showing that microalbuminuria in type 1 diabetes is reversible, FREQUENTLY, and those things that are associated with the reversal.  Possibly to access this abstract you might need to join the website. http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/348/23/2285?query=TOC

Here is a link to a WebMD.com article reviewing the full context of the New England Journal of Medicine article. Page two underscores that if the protein in the urine is detected early enough, tight control in T1’s can control or reverse kidney damage in 60% of the patients in a six year study at Harvard’s Joslin Diabetes Center. Page one reviews the other article in the same issue on a follow up study of 1229 T1 patients from the original DCCT study a decade ago. Those that had the tightest control had significantly less thickening of the arteries several years later. Thickening of the arteries is considered a common indicator of cardiovascular disease. Both articles stated that past experience with previous studies would lead most doctors to suspect that the same results would hold true for T2’s. It is a long url and would have to be wrapped. You can also go to WebMD.com Diseases & Conditions Diabetes and follow the links. The article on statins for diabetics is still there. http://64.4.22.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=a14b3a5b2e649f3307c1be… Dennis (Type 2)

Response:

Would measuring microalbumin levels be kind of like checking random blood sugars that can be up or down just depending on some short term things, whereas creatinine clearance be more like HBA1C (longer term indicator)?

Hmmm.  Now that’s an interesting idea.  I see a nephrologist next week and if we don’t see the answer here in the meantime, I’ll let people know what I find out. Laurie

Response:

Very interesting indeed your posted link BL. Very interesting in the same field,in the same No.of NEJM and the article "Albuminuria and Vascular Damage – The Vicious Twins" http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/348/23/2349?query=TOC See the Fig.You can see and the ROS intervention. euristics – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is a useful and hopeful study showing that microalbuminuria in type 1 diabetes is reversible, FREQUENTLY, and those things that are associated with the reversal.  Possibly to access this abstract you might need to join the website. http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/348/23/2285?query=TOC "The use of angiotensin-converting

Question:

Where is your independent proof?  What is needed is an objective peer review.  Otherwise, it is spam of the worst kind. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Therapeutic usefulness of Keishi-bukuryo-gan for diabetic nephropathy. Nakagawa T, Yokozawa T, Terasawa K, Nakanishi K. Institute of Natural Medicine, Toyama Medical and Pharmaceutical University, 2630 Sugitani, Toyama 930-0194, Japan; Department of Japanese Oriental Medicine, Toyama Medical and Pharmaceutical University, 2630 Sugitani, Toyama 930-0194, Japan. Keishi-bukuryo-gan is a traditional herbal medicine, which is used clinically as a vascular system disorder-eliminating drug. In this study, its effect on the progression of diabetic nephropathy in experimental rats was investigated. The diabetic nephropathy model used in this study shows functional and morphological changes of the kidney resembling those seen in patients with diabetic nephropathy. Increased proteinuria and serum urea nitrogen and creatinine levels and decreased creatinine clearance, which are important parameters of renal function, were observed in rats with diabetic nephropathy. Pathological examination of the kidney revealed diffuse, nodular and exudative lesions and arteriolar hyalinosis. The deterioration of renal function was ameliorated in rats treated with Keishi-bukuryo-gan for 15 weeks and these results agreed with the renal histological findings. In addition, metabolic abnormalities mediated by persistent hyperglycaemia (the glycation reaction, excessive polyol pathway activity, oxidative stress and lipid metabolic abnormalities) were also observed. However, Keishi-bukuryo-gan reduced accumulation of advanced glycation end products, determined by measuring fluorescence, and serum lipid peroxidation, triglyceride and total cholesterol levels dose-dependently. Thus, this study indicates the potential therapeutic usefulness of Keishi-bukuryo-gan for retarding the progression of renal damage and suggests that its beneficial effects were due to its ability to improve metabolic abnormalities associated with diabetes.

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Therapeutic usefulness of Keishi-bukuryo-gan for diabetic nephropathy. Nakagawa T, Yokozawa T, Terasawa K, Nakanishi K. Institute of Natural Medicine, Toyama Medical and Pharmaceutical University, 2630 Sugitani, Toyama 930-0194, Japan; Department of Japanese Oriental Medicine, Toyama Medical and Pharmaceutical University, 2630 Sugitani, Toyama 930-0194, Japan. Keishi-bukuryo-gan is a traditional herbal medicine, which is used clinically as a vascular system disorder-eliminating drug. In this study, its effect on the progression of diabetic nephropathy in experimental rats was investigated. The diabetic nephropathy model used in this study shows functional and morphological changes of the kidney resembling those seen in patients with diabetic nephropathy. Increased proteinuria and serum urea nitrogen and creatinine levels and decreased creatinine clearance, which are important parameters of renal function, were observed in rats with diabetic nephropathy. Pathological examination of the kidney revealed diffuse, nodular and exudative lesions and arteriolar hyalinosis. The deterioration of renal function was ameliorated in rats treated with Keishi-bukuryo-gan for 15 weeks and these results agreed with the renal histological findings. In addition, metabolic abnormalities mediated by persistent hyperglycaemia (the glycation reaction, excessive polyol pathway activity, oxidative stress and lipid metabolic abnormalities) were also observed. However, Keishi-bukuryo-gan reduced accumulation of advanced glycation end products, determined by measuring fluorescence, and serum lipid peroxidation, triglyceride and total cholesterol levels dose-dependently. Thus, this study indicates the potential therapeutic usefulness of Keishi-bukuryo-gan for retarding the progression of renal damage and suggests that its beneficial effects were due to its ability to improve metabolic abnormalities associated with diabetes.

Response:

Question:

Free Radic Biol Med 2003 Jan 15;34(2):186-95 Early oxidative stress in the diabetic kidney: effect of DL-alpha-lipoic

acid. I started taking a Theragran-M multi vitamin and added 400mg of vitamin E after I was diagnosed with diabetes. High blood sugar reduces vitamin E in the body according to a few articles I read. I was considering adding fish oil but I think I eat enough fish. Lipoic Acid is something else I am looking at. I have seen articles that say it helps the eyes of diabetics. I may add it to my pill box. John C

Response:

Free Radic Biol Med 2003 Jan 15;34(2):186-95 Early oxidative stress in the diabetic kidney: effect of DL-alpha-lipoic acid. Obrosova IG, Fathallah L, Liu E, Nourooz-Zadeh J Department of Internal Medicine, University of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor, MI, USA [Medline record in process] Oxidative stress is implicated in the pathogenesis of diabetic nephropathy. The attempts to identify early markers of diabetes-induced renal oxidative injury resulted in contradictory findings. We characterized early oxidative stress in renal cortex of diabetic rats, and evaluated whether it can be prevented by the potent antioxidant, DL-alpha-lipoic acid. The experiments were performed on control rats and streptozotocin-diabetic rats treated with/without DL-alpha-lipoic acid (100 mg/kg i.p., for 3 weeks from induction of diabetes). Malondialdehyde plus 4-hydroxyalkenal concentration was increased in diabetic rats vs. controls (p <.01) and this increase was partially prevented by DL-alpha-lipoic acid. F(2) isoprostane concentrations (measured by GCMS) expressed per either mg protein or arachidonic acid content were not different in control and diabetic rats but were decreased several-fold with DL-alpha-lipoic acid treatment. Both GSH and ascorbate (AA) levels were decreased and GSSG/GSH and dehydroascorbate/AA ratios increased in diabetic rats vs. controls (p <.01 for all comparisons), and these changes were completely or partially (AA) prevented by DL-alpha-lipoic acid. Superoxide dismutase, glutathione peroxidase, glutathione reductase, glutathione transferase, and NADH oxidase, but not catalase, were upregulated in diabetic rats vs. controls, and these activities, except glutathione peroxidase, were decreased by DL-alpha-lipoic acid. In conclusion, enhanced oxidative stress is present in rat renal cortex in early diabetes, and is prevented by DL-alpha-lipoic acid. PMID: 12521600, UI: 22409988 —— Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian!   http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… Sensible and responsible internet citizens have forced him to stop doing it through his website anymore, though… and his "hatinhand.html" page is no longer operative because it violates the TOS of every internet provider he can find for free. – Diogenes And the reason YOU .. post anonymously .. has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that you are an .. idiot .. ? Absolutely not. Surely I’d have to be an idiot to tell you who I am, wouldn’t I?

Why .. ? If you think I would take up my time to have anything at all to do with the likes of someone who can’t even post .. ? Come, now… do you really think I need aberrations like you tracking me down and making my life difficult?

Track you down .. ? For what .. ? Being an anonymous poster on the internet .. ? A ineffectual anonymous poster on the internet ..? Methinks you think much of yourself .. Perhaps you could give us a demonstration of your honesty and lack of hypocrisy in this by giving us your address or your telephone number.

Posted already .. Find it again .. Keep yourself busy .. I thought not .. My point, exactly.

Take a hike .. capon .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian!   http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

Sensible and responsible internet citizens have forced him to stop doing it through his website anymore, though… and his "hatinhand.html" page is no longer operative because it violates the TOS of every internet provider he can find for free. – Diogenes

And the reason YOU .. post anonymously .. has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that you are an .. idiot .. ? I thought not .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian!   http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sensible and responsible internet citizens have forced him to stop doing it through his website anymore, though… and his "hatinhand.html" page is no longer operative because it violates the TOS of every internet provider he can find for free. – Diogenes And the reason YOU .. post anonymously .. has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that you are an .. idiot .. ?

Absolutely not. Surely I’d have to be an idiot to tell you who I am, wouldn’t I? Come, now… do you really think I need aberrations like you tracking me down and making my life difficult? Perhaps you could give us a demonstration of your honesty and lack of hypocrisy in this by giving us your address or your telephone number. I thought not ..

My point, exactly. – Diogenes

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From Guy Williams I think Doe has good intentions and does no harm.  I wold not worry about him. Umm. Doe is above and beyond the normal call of wackiness, and spreads his claims wildly and emphatically enough to confuse the unsuspecting. Like Betty Martini’s aspartame claims, they enter the culture and get repeated. Besides, anyone who claims Jesus and Moses were vegetarians never read the Passover parts of the Torah or the Bible….. Do you really think that his claims are accepted?  At least he is not spamming or shilling.

He has been begging for money to fund these activities for a decade. Sensible and responsible internet citizens have forced him to stop doing it through his website anymore, though… and his "hatinhand.html" page is no longer operative because it violates the TOS of every internet provider he can find for free. – Diogenes

Response:

following madness into the void: Nope .. which is why 40% of type 2 have been shown to be iron related and when treated with phlebotomy the 40% claim he makes is total fantasy.  the numbers of people with hemocromitosis are way less than what he posts.  Look it up, the facts are on both the NIH and CDC sites.

<<snip The insulin resistance-associated hepatic iron overload is the first aetiology of iron overload disorders in France. If we do not know its mechanism, the prevalence among type II diabetic patients is around 40%. <<snip Diabetes Metab 2002 Sep;28(4 Pt 1):335-9 [Do the insulin resistance associated hepatic iron overload must be researched during diabetes mellitus type II?] [Article in French] Roblin X, Chevassus P, Boudemaghe T, Palayodan A Departement de Medecine Interne et Hepato-gastro-enterologie, Centre hospitalier de Gap, 05007 Gap Cedex. [Medline record in process] The insulin resistance-associated hepatic iron overload is the first aetiology of iron overload disorders in France. If we do not know its mechanism, the prevalence among type II diabetic patients is around 40%. Hyperferritinaemia is present in all cases, but is not specific of the diagnosis. This pathology features liver fibrosis among 10% of the patients and some cases of primary liver cancer have been described. Moreover, a large body of evidence favors the direct involvement of iron in the development of extra hepatic neoplasia, while therapeutic phlebotomy to maintain low to normal body iron stores can prevent all known complications of insulin resistance-associated hepatic iron overload. In addition, treatment of type II diabetes mellitus and other features of insulin resistance syndrome is essential. In conclusion, it is important to detect this syndrome during type II diabetes mellitus. PMID: 12442073, UI: 22328961 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian!   http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – following madness into the void: Nope .. which is why 40% of type 2 have been shown to be iron related and when treated with phlebotomy .. All these folks with extra iron should be donating to the Red Cross to make their diabetes better ;-) That way there will be plenty of bags of blood for all my transfusions. Sounds good to me!!! ;-) Wendy Peace and Carrots Farm Vermont http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/ http://www.heathershikinghiatus.homestead.com/ the 40% claim he makes is total fantasy.  the numbers of people with hemocromitosis are way less than what he posts.  Look it up, the facts are on both the NIH and CDC sites.

Oh, he’s claiming that eating meat drives up your iron levels so high it makes people diabetic. The real cases of hemochromatosis lend a certain believability to his claims, because those are very real cases although quite rare.

Response:

Nope .. which is why 40% of type 2 have been shown to be iron related and when treated with phlebotomy ..

All these folks with extra iron should be donating to the Red Cross to make their diabetes better ;-) That way there will be plenty of bags of blood for all my transfusions. Sounds good to me!!! ;-) Wendy   Peace and Carrots Farm Vermont   http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/ http://www.heathershikinghiatus.homestead.com/

Response:

following madness into the void: Nope .. which is why 40% of type 2 have been shown to be iron related and when treated with phlebotomy .. All these folks with extra iron should be donating to the Red Cross to make their diabetes better ;-) That way there will be plenty of bags of blood for all my transfusions. Sounds good to me!!! ;-) Wendy   Peace and Carrots Farm Vermont   http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/ http://www.heathershikinghiatus.homestead.com/

the 40% claim he makes is total fantasy.  the numbers of people with hemocromitosis are way less than what he posts.  Look it up, the facts are on both the NIH and CDC sites. Mack Type 1 since 1975 Minimed 508 Insulin Pump http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.us.zerolimit.net (irc server webpage for our chat room) #diabeticnet is the name of our IRC chat on zerolimit.net http://www.zerolimit.net/files/zl-mirc.exe  http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/misc/webtv.html http://www.xs4all.nl/~ircle/  <–Ircle Mac IRC software

Response:

Do you really think that his claims are accepted?  

Nope .. which is why 40% of type 2 have been shown to be iron related and when treated with phlebotomy .. So how many MILLIONS of people would THAT .. be .. there .. Guy ..? It is called an .. ostrich .. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/439591_1 Phlebotomy was followed by decreases in serum glucose, cholesterol, triglycerides and a poprotein B,[14] and by improvement in both -cell secretion and peripheral insulin action in patients with type 2 diabetes.[15] A significant impact of tissue iron excess on systemic effects of diabetes is suggested by recent reports in which iron appears to influence the development of diabetic nephropathy and vascular dysfunction. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian!   http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

The thing about Doe, is that it is crystal clear that he is off his nut. I find his posts enjoyable. Sleepy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From Guy Williams I think Doe has good intentions and does no harm.  I wold not worry about him. Umm. Doe is above and beyond the normal call of wackiness, and spreads his claims wildly and emphatically enough to confuse the unsuspecting. Like Betty Martini’s aspartame claims, they enter the culture and get repeated. Besides, anyone who claims Jesus and Moses were vegetarians never read the Passover parts of the Torah or the Bible…..

New Jersy has most toxic waste dumps California has most lawyers New Jersy had first choice    http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–

Response:

From Guy Williams I think Doe has good intentions and does no harm.  I wold not worry about him.

Umm. Doe is above and beyond the normal call of wackiness, and spreads his claims wildly and emphatically enough to confuse the unsuspecting. Like Betty Martini’s aspartame claims, they enter the culture and get repeated. Besides, anyone who claims Jesus and Moses were vegetarians never read the Passover parts of the Torah or the Bible…..

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From Guy Williams I think Doe has good intentions and does no harm.  I wold not worry about him. Umm. Doe is above and beyond the normal call of wackiness, and spreads his claims wildly and emphatically enough to confuse the unsuspecting. Like Betty Martini’s aspartame claims, they enter the culture and get repeated. Besides, anyone who claims Jesus and Moses were vegetarians never read the Passover parts of the Torah or the Bible…..

Do you really think that his claims are accepted?  At least he is not spamming or shilling. The danger comes from nice sounding theories that have a bear trap in them. Gotcha! I see things that I tried before 1980 being represented as new.  As I told my Doc last week.  The more that I learn–the less I know. Like climbing a mountain.                                                Guy

Response:

From Guy Williams I think Doe has good intentions and does no harm.  I wold not worry about him. But there are other money grubbers that are out to make a fast buck easy.  They are much more polished and difficult to deal with. They may steal your money, which is their purpose on selling a plausible program.  The real problem is that they may steal your health. Please remember to consider my stinky weed: It will cure anything.  All I need is some guts to market it. :-) It is hell to be born with a conscience.  Will always be poor. I don’t agree with Doe but I can elect to read or not read his posts.  When you look carefully, his post make as much sense as some others.

Response:

Question:

Sharon- Welcome! We have a couple of things in common…. I’m 25 and am rlatively new to this whole "kidney thing". I’ve been on dialysis for 2 years, while I’m waiting for a transplant. I spent 1 year on hemo (in clinic)before switching to peritoneal (at home) and I cannot tell you how much more I prefer PD. I feel almost normal again.,I can leave town for the weekend if I want, I have complete control over my scheduling, and I feel better. Send me an emailif you want more detailed info or have any specific questions. One of the best things I’ve heard, as cheesy as it sounds, is this: "Dialyze to liv, don’t live to dialyzie." Whartever your choice, don’t let it define who you are. Hope this helps! Lizz Parsons not_too_s…@yahoo.com Diagnosed: Goodpasture’s Syndrome 3/2001 Hemodialysis: 3/2001-3/2002 Peritoneal: 3/2002- ??? Awaiting transplant at UC San Francisco "I know God won’t give me more than I can handle… I just wish He didn’t trust me so much!"

Response:

Hi Sharon, I too am a newby.  My numbers don’t add up to dialysis yet (my creatanine is 2).  But my nephrologist wants me to take  medication that will stop the cardiac catheter dye from being so hard on my kidneys.  I’ve also had some med changes to more "kidney friendly" meds.  She is telling me to look at peritineol dialysis as you are hearing. I am hoping to get a pump next month. Chris "sharon kelley" <sharon6…@cox.net> wrote in message

news:DUfu9.11141$gA1.717783@news2.east.cox.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello out there. I’m a newbie to computers and to kidney problems. I’ve come > seeking knowledge and support. I am a diabetic pump user, 26 yrs iddm, 2 yrs > on the pump. 1 yr ago I had an MI, had a cardiac cath. About 6 mos. later I > started noticing kidney problems, saw a nephrologist, had some tests now > have chronic renal insuff. from a mixture of dye reaction and underlying > diabetic nephropathy. My husband is being tested for kidney donation. I will > probably be on dialysis before getting a kidney though. My question:  what > is home dialysis really like? They sent me home with a video but that > doesn’t really tell the whole story. I don’t know anyone on dialysis so any > input would be appreciated.  Thank you . > "

Response:

Guys. Before you decide eithe way, I would recommend you visit a dialysis clinic and actually talk to patients there as well as those who use PD. There are those who prefer haemo and there are those who prefer PD. — Daniel +——————————————-+ Director – Team GORP Melbourne, Victoria, Australia +——————————————-+ "Chris Jones" <cjon…@woh.rr.com> wrote in message

news:bL0v9.149409$Cz.15466998@twister.neo.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Sharon, > I too am a newby.  My numbers don’t add up to dialysis yet (my creatanine is > 2).  But my nephrologist wants me to take  medication that will stop the > cardiac catheter dye from being so hard on my kidneys.  I’ve also had some > med changes to more "kidney friendly" meds.  She is telling me to look at > peritineol dialysis as you are hearing. > I am hoping to get a pump next month. > Chris > "sharon kelley" <sharon6…@cox.net> wrote in message > news:DUfu9.11141$gA1.717783@news2.east.cox.net… > > Hello out there. I’m a newbie to computers and to kidney problems. I’ve > come > > seeking knowledge and support. I am a diabetic pump user, 26 yrs iddm, 2 > yrs > > on the pump. 1 yr ago I had an MI, had a cardiac cath. About 6 mos. later > I > > started noticing kidney problems, saw a nephrologist, had some tests now > > have chronic renal insuff. from a mixture of dye reaction and underlying > > diabetic nephropathy. My husband is being tested for kidney donation. I > will > > probably be on dialysis before getting a kidney though. My question: what > > is home dialysis really like? They sent me home with a video but that > > doesn’t really tell the whole story. I don’t know anyone on dialysis so > any > > input would be appreciated.  Thank you . > > "

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In article <DUfu9.11141$gA1.717…@news2.east.cox.net>, sharon kelley <sharon6…@cox.net> wrote: >Hello out there. I’m a newbie to computers and to kidney problems. I’ve come >seeking knowledge and support. I am a diabetic pump user, 26 yrs iddm, 2 yrs >on the pump. 1 yr ago I had an MI, had a cardiac cath. About 6 mos. later I >started noticing kidney problems, saw a nephrologist, had some tests now >have chronic renal insuff. from a mixture of dye reaction and underlying >diabetic nephropathy. My husband is being tested for kidney donation. I will >probably be on dialysis before getting a kidney though. My question:  what >is home dialysis really like? They sent me home with a video but that >doesn’t really tell the whole story. I don’t know anyone on dialysis so any >input would be appreciated.  Thank you .

My daughter was on home PD for about six months (from just before she turned four).  We greatly preferred it to hemodialysis (which she never tried) because we didn’t want to have to drive 45 minutes (twice) three times a week with her one year old sister in tow.  We just hooked her up a little before bedtime and unhooked her a little while after she woke up in the morning. People who’ve been on both will probably have more helpful input than I do.  I know my daughter’s overall energy level was certainly better once she went on PD (and it improved even _more_ once she had a transplant — there was a significant difference even just 3 days post-transplant and still in the hospital bed), but I can’t tell you how the two differ in "feel". I would think that home PD would be more convenient, but that may depend on your lifestyle and your comfort level with medical procedures (that is, for hemodialysis the clinic staff do most of the work, for home PD you (or a caretaker) have to do it).  We did like being able to go out of town (we just had to bring her machine with us), although we only ended up doing it once. — chuk

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>People who’ve been on both will probably have more helpful input than I >do.

It helps to make a list of the plus and minuses of each type of dialysis. I, personally, did not prefer PD. But sometimes we have to do things we don’t like in order to survive.  It has it’s good aspects and it’s bad aspects.  I know people who think PD is the best.  You have to take into account what will work best for you in your own individual situation.  Learn all you can about both procedures.  Talk to the staff of the dialysis place.  When you feel comfortable about either procedure, it’s more likely to work out for you. Donna "That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong." Dennis Miller hey hey my my rock and roll can never die it’s better to burn out than it is to fade away

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It’s natural for people on one type of dialysis to argue in favour of it. I’m on hemo, but, I really wouldn’t say that one is clearly better than the other. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, and you have to weigh them and decide what’s important for you. I don’t think anyone can say that one or the other is better healthwise. Pierre "TackneyNYC" <tackney…@aol.comatose> wrote in message

news:20021028151459.17597.00000050@mb-fd.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >People who’ve been on both will probably have more helpful input than I > >do. > It helps to make a list of the plus and minuses of each type of dialysis. > I, personally, did not prefer PD. But sometimes we have to do things we don’t > like in order to survive.  It has it’s good aspects and it’s bad aspects. I > know people who think PD is the best.  You have to take into account what will > work best for you in your own individual situation.  Learn all you can about > both procedures.  Talk to the staff of the dialysis place.  When you feel > comfortable about either procedure, it’s more likely to work out for you. > Donna > "That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong." > Dennis Miller > hey hey my my > rock and roll can never die > it’s better to burn out > than it is to fade away

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Interesting. My parents first tried PD at home on me when I was young. My father was incredibly strict with hygiene etc, but I still managed to go through give catheter sites. That’s why my parents decided to go to home haemo. I hated it from the first day (not that I didn’t hate PD) but for some reason I was healthier, stronger and started to grow  much more during this time. I can definitely remember it to be the worse of the two dialysis’ but in retrospect, it was the better way to go. I’m almost certain if I had not made the transition I would be much shorter (average height now) and not led the "almost" normal life I did back then. Also, HD went for four hours as opposed to PD (the whole night). — Daniel +——————————————-+ Director – Team GORP Melbourne, Victoria, Australia +——————————————-+ "Charles Frederick Goodin" <cgoo…@sfu.ca> wrote in message news:apk03m$r04$1@morgoth.sfu.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <DUfu9.11141$gA1.717…@news2.east.cox.net>, > sharon kelley <sharon6…@cox.net> wrote: > >Hello out there. I’m a newbie to computers and to kidney problems. I’ve come > >seeking knowledge and support. I am a diabetic pump user, 26 yrs iddm, 2 yrs > >on the pump. 1 yr ago I had an MI, had a cardiac cath. About 6 mos. later I > >started noticing kidney problems, saw a nephrologist, had some tests now > >have chronic renal insuff. from a mixture of dye reaction and underlying > >diabetic nephropathy. My husband is being tested for kidney donation. I will > >probably be on dialysis before getting a kidney though. My question: what > >is home dialysis really like? They sent me home with a video but that > >doesn’t really tell the whole story. I don’t know anyone on dialysis so any > >input would be appreciated.  Thank you . > My daughter was on home PD for about six months (from just before she > turned four).  We greatly preferred it to hemodialysis (which she never > tried) because we didn’t want to have to drive 45 minutes (twice) three > times a week with her one year old sister in tow.  We just hooked her up a > little before bedtime and unhooked her a little while after she woke up in > the morning. > People who’ve been on both will probably have more helpful input than I > do.  I know my daughter’s overall energy level was certainly better once > she went on PD (and it improved even _more_ once she had a transplant — > there was a significant difference even just 3 days post-transplant and > still in the hospital bed), but I can’t tell you how the two differ in > "feel". > I would think that home PD would be more convenient, but that may depend > on your lifestyle and your comfort level with medical procedures (that is, > for hemodialysis the clinic staff do most of the work, for home PD you (or > a caretaker) have to do it).  We did like being able to go out of town (we > just had to bring her machine with us), although we only ended up doing it > once. > — > chuk

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Crikey. Some of the things you say don’t sound any good and don’t compare to my experience Larry. I was on dialysis for six years. My father is a doctor. Basically, he would connect me at home, leave me alone (we had an intercom) and then dis-connect me. I never had any problems at home because we were very strict with regards to hygene and he has excellent hands (he would insert the needles). On the other hand, my experience in clinics were not bad either. I dialysed in total for a year in clinics (because my father went to many conferences) and was not witness to any problems with other patients. One sister did manage to blow my fistula – a fact nobody could understand because mine was "a lovely straight fistula". You have to remember, at the end of the day, if you have dialysis at home, you’re more independent and you only have yourself and whoever helps you if something goes wrong. This has it’s pros and cons. Odds are you are not a medical professional so you may not know what to do in the case of something going wrong, but on the other hand, you can’t trust anyone more than you can trust yourself in getting yourself and the lines and machine prepped properly. I know that at the clinic I visited, I made sure that I prepped my own lines because no-one thinks my life is as important as I do. If I were given the choice tomorrow if my current transplant failed, I’d have to chose to dialysis in a clinic because I do not live with anyone. However, if I lived with a partner or near my parents, I’m sure I would prefer home dialysis. — Daniel +——————————————-+ Director – Team GORP Melbourne, Victoria, Australia +——————————————-+ "Larry Krzewinski" <larry…@gte.net> wrote in message

news:vhnjru8d77tek1jf3l83m4uc4gq75vp8br@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:17:07 GMT, "sharon kelley" <sharon6…@cox.net> > wrote: > >Hello out there. I’m a newbie to computers and to kidney problems. I’ve come > >seeking knowledge and support. I am a diabetic pump user, 26 yrs iddm, 2 yrs > >on the pump. 1 yr ago I had an MI, had a cardiac cath. About 6 mos. later I > >started noticing kidney problems, saw a nephrologist, had some tests now > >have chronic renal insuff. from a mixture of dye reaction and underlying > >diabetic nephropathy. My husband is being tested for kidney donation. I will > >probably be on dialysis before getting a kidney though. My question: what > >is home dialysis really like? They sent me home with a video but that > >doesn’t really tell the whole story. I don’t know anyone on dialysis so any > >input would be appreciated.  Thank you . > >" > I never experienced home dialysis myself, but I have seen enough > people bottom out on hemodialysis and go into shock that I never > wanted to be in a situation where I was on my own in case that should > happen to me.  I much rather preferred the "safety in numbers" that > being dialyzed in a unit with nurses and techs and other patients > present who could try and resuscitate you in case of trouble.  I have > personally witnessed 3 people die while being dialyzed during my 8 > years and 8 months on hemodialysis.  I saw at least a dozen bottom out > and go into shock during that period of time as well. > Home hemodialysis would be much more convenient than driving to a > center but it wasn’t for me, > Larry

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Hello out there. I’m a newbie to computers and to kidney problems. I’ve come seeking knowledge and support. I am a diabetic pump user, 26 yrs iddm, 2 yrs on the pump. 1 yr ago I had an MI, had a cardiac cath. About 6 mos. later I started noticing kidney problems, saw a nephrologist, had some tests now have chronic renal insuff. from a mixture of dye reaction and underlying diabetic nephropathy. My husband is being tested for kidney donation. I will probably be on dialysis before getting a kidney though. My question:  what is home dialysis really like? They sent me home with a video but that doesn’t really tell the whole story. I don’t know anyone on dialysis so any input would be appreciated.  Thank you . "

Response:

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:17:07 GMT, "sharon kelley" <sharon6…@cox.net> wrote: >Hello out there. I’m a newbie to computers and to kidney problems. I’ve come >seeking knowledge and support. I am a diabetic pump user, 26 yrs iddm, 2 yrs >on the pump. 1 yr ago I had an MI, had a cardiac cath. About 6 mos. later I >started noticing kidney problems, saw a nephrologist, had some tests now >have chronic renal insuff. from a mixture of dye reaction and underlying >diabetic nephropathy. My husband is being tested for kidney donation. I will >probably be on dialysis before getting a kidney though. My question:  what >is home dialysis really like? They sent me home with a video but that >doesn’t really tell the whole story. I don’t know anyone on dialysis so any >input would be appreciated.  Thank you . >"

I never experienced home dialysis myself, but I have seen enough people bottom out on hemodialysis and go into shock that I never wanted to be in a situation where I was on my own in case that should happen to me.  I much rather preferred the "safety in numbers" that being dialyzed in a unit with nurses and techs and other patients present who could try and resuscitate you in case of trouble.  I have personally witnessed 3 people die while being dialyzed during my 8 years and 8 months on hemodialysis.  I saw at least a dozen bottom out and go into shock during that period of time as well. Home hemodialysis would be much more convenient than driving to a center but it wasn’t for me, Larry

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To be very honest, I don’t remember what it was like when I was feeling "normal", what it was like before I got sick and then had to start dialyzing.  I do know, that I have had my transplanted kidney for five years and with every year it gets better and better.  Transplant is another way of living with renal disease, not a cure as someone else said.  However, considering how I felt when I was dialyzing, not alive, not dead, just existing, etc., my life is far better.  The complications, whatever they may be, are far easier to live with (even cancer that developed and is in a three year remission) than dialyzing that kept me in the hospital all the time.  I am alive and my head is clear except at night when I do get very tired.  But, it is a good tired and not a sick tired.  I hope this helps. Monica "Touchbases23" <touchbase…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20021019185823.25209.00002985@mb-fm.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone. I’ve learned so much reading your messages and about kidney > issues. > For those of you who have had a kidney transplant, do you feel better now than > when your kidneys were once healthy, despite all the medications you have to > take? > My little guy is starting to get occasionally depressed and a bit > lethargic/disinterested in things he used to enjoy, even though his values are > high-normal (juvenile nephropathy). Thanks.

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Hi everyone. I’ve learned so much reading your messages and about kidney issues. For those of you who have had a kidney transplant, do you feel better now than when your kidneys were once healthy, despite all the medications you have to take? My little guy is starting to get occasionally depressed and a bit lethargic/disinterested in things he used to enjoy, even though his values are high-normal (juvenile nephropathy). Thanks.

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I’m a bad example. My kidneys started to deteriorate at the age of two. This means I can’t remember the best two years of my life. Jokes aside. I have had two kidney transplants, the first lasting for seven years and the current one going five years strong. I am 28 and I’ll easily admit, dialysis or transplant has both their complications and inconveniences. A transplant is a treatment and not a cure. All in all though, I have greater freedom with a kidney transplant and as long as I don’t overtax myself (dietary / exercise), I’m fine. On of the side-effects that I’ve discussed on this newsgroup is the effect of Predneslone. I suffer from a bit of the "Moon Face" syndrome. This is not uncommon but again, given the freedoms I have gained it was worthwhile. Regardless of whether you have a transplant or are on dialysis, you will still experience your fair share of trials and tribulations. Nonetheless, I’m quite lucky to have had a transplant and it’s my preferred "treatment". Hope my two cents were worth the two cents. Regards. — Daniel +——————————————-+ Director – Team GORP Melbourne, Victoria, Australia +——————————————-+ "Touchbases23" <touchbase…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20021019185823.25209.00002985@mb-fm.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone. I’ve learned so much reading your messages and about kidney > issues. > For those of you who have had a kidney transplant, do you feel better now than > when your kidneys were once healthy, despite all the medications you have to > take? > My little guy is starting to get occasionally depressed and a bit > lethargic/disinterested in things he used to enjoy, even though his values are > high-normal (juvenile nephropathy). Thanks.

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"Daniel Granot" <dgra…@bigpond.net.au> wrote in news:x%xs9.5886$DP6.20646@news-server.bigpond.net.au: > On of the side-effects that I’ve discussed on this newsgroup is the > effect of Predneslone. I suffer from a bit of the "Moon Face" > syndrome. This is not uncommon but again, given the freedoms I have > gained it was worthwhile.

What is this "Moon Face" side effect? I have not heard of it. Thank you, Gary

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Basically, the the fat cells are accentuated. This results in the face being rounder and fatter than it should be. Some people experience this effect in other areas of their body. — Daniel +——————————————-+ Director – Team GORP Melbourne, Victoria, Australia +——————————————-+ "Strider" <someemail@.some.edu> wrote in message

news:Xns92ADA95DB37B8Stridergak@216.148.227.77… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Daniel Granot" <dgra…@bigpond.net.au> wrote in > news:x%xs9.5886$DP6.20646@news-server.bigpond.net.au: > > On of the side-effects that I’ve discussed on this newsgroup is the > > effect of Predneslone. I suffer from a bit of the "Moon Face" > > syndrome. This is not uncommon but again, given the freedoms I have > > gained it was worthwhile. > What is this "Moon Face" side effect? I have not heard of it. > Thank you, > Gary

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