- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know how many people out there have cats, but there has been a recall of several brands of cat food. Apparently, some cats have actually died. I beleive there’s also some sort of recall on dog food too. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html Yep, it’s for many brands of "wet" dog and cat food which comes in cans and packages. Our dogs eat one of the brands, but they eat the "dry" dog food. It’s unknown what the toxin is in the pet food, but it causes kidney failure in pets. Cats are about 9 times more likely to develope the problem than dogs. (for reasons unknown to me) Chip We’re now thinking that our MIL’s dog wasn’t poisoned by a person, but the food she was eating was on the list.  I wish we would have had an autopsy done, darn it.  We were too upset at the time to even think of having it done. kili her symptoms did not match renal failure-I don’t think that is what caused her death-she was impacted by a faster acting neurotoxin of some kind Okay, thanks, Margrove.  I appreciate that, ’cause we’re so upset and we don’t want to feel like it was our fault. kili no one who has fed their dog food that was poisoned by a self regulalting food system need blame themselves. There are things in life that we have little control over. In the case of your mil’s dog, she exhibited typical symptoms of a neurotoxin, which could be anything from a poisoning that was deliberate, or not, or a spider bite, a snake bite, or possibly an infection that was not picked up prior to symptoms. They cannot tell us how they feel-so we rely on our instincts and observations. The pet food problem is astronomically tragic because this system is unregulated, pets are viewed as property so law suits againts the feed companies are impossible. Right now the only thing motivating this feed  company is potential loss of income from sales and returns frmo large retailers. How this happened, the time it took to report it, the actions taken to control it and the reasons for it to hapen in the first place are criminal. People are spending more money for premium foods that are prepared by the same company who prepares the less expensive ones all with the same binders and ingredients. This is tantemount to shopping at Niemen Marcus for gap clothes. The whole thing sickens me really.and I have made my positon known to Iam’s whose products I have used for better then two decades-I may start making my own food for my dog, simply out of principle let alone safety. Kili in light of the new info that came out about aminopterin being the cause of the food poisoning it is almost guaranteed your mil’s dog was an end result of eating contaminated food-most often the chemical causes fatal renal failure or liver failure but in large doses can cause neurotoxicity and seizures-if your Vet can write a leter of cause of death and you provide the unused or used containers of dog food to menu foods-they will at least pay the vet bill-a minor consolation but something

Thanks, Margrove. kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know how many people out there have cats, but there has been a recall of several brands of cat food. Apparently, some cats have actually died. I beleive there’s also some sort of recall on dog food too. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html Yep, it’s for many brands of "wet" dog and cat food which comes in cans and packages. Our dogs eat one of the brands, but they eat the "dry" dog food. It’s unknown what the toxin is in the pet food, but it causes kidney failure in pets. Cats are about 9 times more likely to develope the problem than dogs. (for reasons unknown to me) Chip We’re now thinking that our MIL’s dog wasn’t poisoned by a person, but the food she was eating was on the list.  I wish we would have had an autopsy done, darn it.  We were too upset at the time to even think of having it done. kili her symptoms did not match renal failure-I don’t think that is what caused her death-she was impacted by a faster acting neurotoxin of some kind Okay, thanks, Margrove.  I appreciate that, ’cause we’re so upset and we don’t want to feel like it was our fault. kili no one who has fed their dog food that was poisoned by a self regulalting food system need blame themselves. There are things in life that we have little control over. In the case of your mil’s dog, she exhibited typical symptoms of a neurotoxin, which could be anything from a poisoning that was deliberate, or not, or a spider bite, a snake bite, or possibly an infection that was not picked up prior to symptoms. They cannot tell us how they feel-so we rely on our instincts and observations. The pet food problem is astronomically tragic because this system is unregulated, pets are viewed as property so law suits againts the feed companies are impossible. Right now the only thing motivating this feed  company is potential loss of income from sales and returns frmo large retailers. How this happened, the time it took to report it, the actions taken to control it and the reasons for it to hapen in the first place are criminal. People are spending more money for premium foods that are prepared by the same company who prepares the less expensive ones all with the same binders and ingredients. This is tantemount to shopping at Niemen Marcus for gap clothes. The whole thing sickens me really.and I have made my positon known to Iam’s whose products I have used for better then two decades-I may start making my own food for my dog, simply out of principle let alone safety.

Kili in light of the new info that came out about aminopterin being the cause of the food poisoning it is almost guaranteed your mil’s dog was an end result of eating contaminated food-most often the chemical causes fatal renal failure or liver failure but in large doses can cause neurotoxicity and seizures-if your Vet can write a leter of cause of death and you provide the unused or used containers of dog food to menu foods-they will at least pay the vet bill-a minor consolation but something — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know how many people out there have cats, but there has been a recall of several brands of cat food. Apparently, some cats have actually died. I beleive there’s also some sort of recall on dog food too. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html Yep, it’s for many brands of "wet" dog and cat food which comes in cans and packages. Our dogs eat one of the brands, but they eat the "dry" dog food. It’s unknown what the toxin is in the pet food, but it causes kidney failure in pets. Cats are about 9 times more likely to develope the problem than dogs. (for reasons unknown to me) Chip We’re now thinking that our MIL’s dog wasn’t poisoned by a person, but the food she was eating was on the list.  I wish we would have had an autopsy done, darn it.  We were too upset at the time to even think of having it done. kili her symptoms did not match renal failure-I don’t think that is what caused her death-she was impacted by a faster acting neurotoxin of some kind Okay, thanks, Margrove.  I appreciate that, ’cause we’re so upset and we don’t want to feel like it was our fault. kili

no one who has fed their dog food that was poisoned by a self regulalting food system need blame themselves. There are things in life that we have little control over. In the case of your mil’s dog, she exhibited typical symptoms of a neurotoxin, which could be anything from a poisoning that was deliberate, or not, or a spider bite, a snake bite, or possibly an infection that was not picked up prior to symptoms. They cannot tell us how they feel-so we rely on our instincts and observations. The pet food problem is astronomically tragic because this system is unregulated, pets are viewed as property so law suits againts the feed companies are impossible. Right now the only thing motivating this feed  company is potential loss of income from sales and returns frmo large retailers. How this happened, the time it took to report it, the actions taken to control it and the reasons for it to hapen in the first place are criminal. People are spending more money for premium foods that are prepared by the same company who prepares the less expensive ones all with the same binders and ingredients. This is tantemount to shopping at Niemen Marcus for gap clothes. The whole thing sickens me really.and I have made my positon known to Iam’s whose products I have used for better then two decades-I may start making my own food for my dog, simply out of principle let alone safety. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::I guess, if you want to be safe, buy human tunafish and canned meats. People should talk to their vets first before feeding their furbabies "human" food. I know canned tuna fish is not good for cats except as an ocassional treat. Jackie ~*~I have not ceased being fearful, but I have ceased to let fear control me… I have gone ahead despite the pounding in my heart that says:  turn back, turn back, you’ll die if you venture too far~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I guess, if you want to be safe, buy human tunafish and canned meats. People should talk to their vets first before feeding their furbabies "human" food. I know canned tuna fish is not good for cats except as an ocassional treat.

You’re right some foods aren’t good for animals that are perfectly healthy for people.  I think garlic and onions, grapes, raisins aren’t good for dogs. kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I don’t know how many people out there have cats, but there has been a recall of several brands of cat food. Apparently, some cats have actually died. I beleive there’s also some sort of recall on dog food too. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I don’t know how many people out there have cats, but there has been a recall of several brands of cat food. Apparently, some cats have actually died. I beleive there’s also some sort of recall on dog food too.http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html — The charter is available at:http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

I guess, if you want to be safe, buy human tunafish and canned meats. I guess most of the tainted food is the canned soft food.  I NEVER give my dog canned food.  It is bad for her teeth.  Animals develop a perference for soft food when they are overpapered.  My dog gets Kibbles and Bits and she loves it.  I still have a two week supply so this problem should blow over before I have to buy more dog food. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I don’t know how many people out there have cats, but there has been a recall of several brands of cat food. Apparently, some cats have actually died. I beleive there’s also some sort of recall on dog food too. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html

Yep, it’s for many brands of "wet" dog and cat food which comes in cans and packages. Our dogs eat one of the brands, but they eat the "dry" dog food. It’s unknown what the toxin is in the pet food, but it causes kidney failure in pets. Cats are about 9 times more likely to develope the problem than dogs. (for reasons unknown to me) Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know how many people out there have cats, but there has been a recall of several brands of cat food. Apparently, some cats have actually died. I beleive there’s also some sort of recall on dog food too. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html Yep, it’s for many brands of "wet" dog and cat food which comes in cans and packages. Our dogs eat one of the brands, but they eat the "dry" dog food. It’s unknown what the toxin is in the pet food, but it causes kidney failure in pets. Cats are about 9 times more likely to develope the problem than dogs. (for reasons unknown to me) Chip

We’re now thinking that our MIL’s dog wasn’t poisoned by a person, but the food she was eating was on the list.  I wish we would have had an autopsy done, darn it.  We were too upset at the time to even think of having it done. kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know how many people out there have cats, but there has been a recall of several brands of cat food. Apparently, some cats have actually died. I beleive there’s also some sort of recall on dog food too. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html Yep, it’s for many brands of "wet" dog and cat food which comes in cans and packages. Our dogs eat one of the brands, but they eat the "dry" dog food. It’s unknown what the toxin is in the pet food, but it causes kidney failure in pets. Cats are about 9 times more likely to develope the problem than dogs. (for reasons unknown to me) Chip We’re now thinking that our MIL’s dog wasn’t poisoned by a person, but the food she was eating was on the list.  I wish we would have had an autopsy done, darn it.  We were too upset at the time to even think of having it done. kili

her symptoms did not match renal failure-I don’t think that is what caused her death-she was impacted by a faster acting neurotoxin of some kind — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know how many people out there have cats, but there has been a recall of several brands of cat food. Apparently, some cats have actually died. I beleive there’s also some sort of recall on dog food too. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html Yep, it’s for many brands of "wet" dog and cat food which comes in cans and packages. Our dogs eat one of the brands, but they eat the "dry" dog food. It’s unknown what the toxin is in the pet food, but it causes kidney failure in pets. Cats are about 9 times more likely to develope the problem than dogs. (for reasons unknown to me) Chip We’re now thinking that our MIL’s dog wasn’t poisoned by a person, but the food she was eating was on the list.  I wish we would have had an autopsy done, darn it.  We were too upset at the time to even think of having it done. kili her symptoms did not match renal failure-I don’t think that is what caused her death-she was impacted by a faster acting neurotoxin of some kind

Okay, thanks, Margrove.  I appreciate that, ’cause we’re so upset and we don’t want to feel like it was our fault. kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::I’m not sure about this, but I think it might be because cancer cells could ::be in the organs. Not that this is proof in any way, but they recently had a ::Law and Order episode about it. Some info……. Donation by Cancer Survivors Many cancer survivors are keenly aware of the value of good health and want to help others by donating their blood or body organs. However, for the safety of blood or organ recipients, centers may restrict donations from people diagnosed or with a history of certain cancers. Blood Donation Some people who have had cancer are not allowed to donate blood. This is done partly to protect the donor, but it may also add an extra margin of safety for the person who receives the blood. While cancer has very rarely been transmitted through transplants of solid organs such as kidneys, cancer due to blood transfusion has not been reported in the medical literature. That would suggest that the possibility of getting cancer from a blood transfusion is extremely small. Even if cancer cells were present in donated blood, the immune system of the person receiving the blood would destroy the cells. A possible exception might be in transfusion recipients with weakened immune systems, who might not be able to fend off the cancer cells. Because of this slight possibility, in certain cases cancer survivors may not be allowed to donate blood for other people. Different blood collection centers may have slightly different standards for allowing cancer survivors to donate. For example, the American Red Cross guidelines allow people who have had cancer to donate if the cancer were treated with surgery or radiation at least 5 years ago and there has been no recurrence. Potential donors who have had only low-risk skin cancers that were removed or destroyed (and therefore have little risk of cancerous cells entering the bloodstream) may not have to wait that long. People who were treated for cancer with chemotherapy, hormonal therapy, or immunotherapy cannot donate blood. Nor can anyone who has had leukemia or lymphoma. Other blood donation centers may have slightly different guidelines regarding donations by cancer survivors, such as requiring shorter times since cancer treatment was completed. Ultimately, it’s up to the doctor in charge of the donor center to decide whether a person is allowed to donate. If you have questions about whether you can donate, please contact the blood collecting center in your community. Some cancer survivors may find these precautions frustrating. They may be eager to donate blood to help others with cancer, just as they were helped by transfusions during their treatment. Everyone should remember, though, that the most important goal in blood banking is to ensure the safety of the blood supply and to protect transfusion recipients. Organ Donation Many cancer survivors also wish to help people by becoming organ donors. There is always a pressing need for organ donation. According to the United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS), the organization that facilitates every organ transplant in the US, more than 82,000 people are waiting for organs. Some organ donations, such as kidney donation, may be done when a person is still living, while others are possible only if a person wishing to donate passes away under certain circumstances. The risk of passing on cancer to an organ recipient is very small, but there have been rare reports in the medical literature of this happening. The risk is probably slightly higher than with blood transfusions because organ recipients are given drugs to suppress their immune systems, which helps prevent rejection of the transplant. According to a study by UNOS, reported in the journal Transplantation, under select circumstances there may be an acceptable risk in using organs from donors who have had certain types of cancer. This is particularly true if there is a long cancer-free interval prior to organ donation. Currently, UNOS does not recommend accepting organs from people with "actively spreading cancer (except for primary brain tumors that have not spread beyond the brain stem)." Acceptance of organs for donation is up to the individual organ procurement agency and the recipient. If you have questions about whether you may be able to donate your organs, please contact UNOS or the organ procurement center in your community. For many people, corneal donation is another way to offer help to others after they pass away. Almost all people with cancer (except those with certain blood or eye cancers) can donate their corneas. Corneal donation does not delay the funeral and the body is not disfigured. http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/content/ETO_1_4x_Donation_by_Cancer…  .

Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care! — _TJ_ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Hi, TJ, I haven’t had one for about 2 years but may get one this year.  I’ve never had any problems with them so I’m not apprehensive to get one. smiles, Elise

Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care! — _TJ_ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care! — _TJ_ —

I don’t ever get flu shots because the one year I got one, I got a really bad flu. I figured that was a sign and I shouldn’t get them. I never get the flu otherwise (knock wood . Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Hi, TJ, I haven’t had one for about 2 years but may get one this year.  I’ve never had any problems with them so I’m not apprehensive to get one. smiles, Elise

I’ll get a flu shot as soon as I can. They make me feel a bit "crappy" for a day or so afterward but it is worth it in my opinion. — Ron P Now a member of the invisible generation — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Is there a problem with the flu and autoimmune disorders? I never heard this. I have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and vitiligo (harmless one there). I got the flu that year I got a shot (the only shot I’ve ever had) and nothing happened other than I was sick for week or so. That being sick for a week or two doesn’t sound like the flu, it may have been another bug doing the rounds at that time.

A lot of people say they got the flu from a flu shot.  The fact is that you can’t!  You may however develop flu like symptoms, normally much milder than getting the flu. It’s also very possible to get the flu even if you have had the shot, but not *from* the shot.  You can get it if that strain of the flu wasn’t in that years shots, which is partly a guessing game. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there a problem with the flu and autoimmune disorders? I never heard this. I have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and vitiligo (harmless one there). I got the flu that year I got a shot (the only shot I’ve ever had) and nothing happened other than I was sick for week or so. That being sick for a week or two doesn’t sound like the flu, it may have been another bug doing the rounds at that time. Last time I had the real flu (not a really bad cold/sinus stuff etc) it lasted 6 weeks before I was fully better. :-/ The card I got (here in .nl) inviting me to get my free flu shot says it’s for those over 65 plus younger folks with heart, lung or kidney disease, diabetes and those with lowered immune systems. If you think you fall into one of those categories you could ask your doc about it? — Vashti

Thanks, Vashti. Actually, I can’t remember exaclty how long I was sick because it was probably four years ago and my memory isn’t too great. I just know I got something bad that lasted longer and was much worse than any cold I’ve ever had. I think I even had a fever, which I never get. It was not fun. I don’t think I fall into those categories. Autoimmune, in my case, does not equal lowered immune system. My immune system is actually pretty good and I don’t get sick much, at least physically. I hope you never get the flu again. That sounds awful! Get your shot, for sure. Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::Is there a problem with the flu and autoimmune disorders? I never heard ::this. I have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and vitiligo (harmless one there). I ::got the flu that year I got a shot (the only shot I’ve ever had) and nothing ::happened other than I was sick for week or so. Dear Dawn, I was rushed when I wrote my reply, but really should have expounded a bit more. Katie takes two immunosuppressive meds (Enbrel and Methotrexate) for her rheumatoid arthritis. It’s the meds more than her arthritis that make her a candidate for the flu shot. Kristen is still quite sick with Grave’s disease. Her endo encourages her to get the flu shot every year. If Kristen were to get the flu on top of the Grave’s disease, she would be one sick kid. In my opinion, anyone with chronic health conditions should think about getting the flu shot. My son is asthmatic and used to get the flu shot until he became an adult and decided he didn’t need it anymore P.S. Kristen goes back to the endo today. It’s looking like the radiation treatment for Grave’s disease she had during the Summer didn’t work. Sigh! She has two options, more radiation or surgery. Jackie ~*~In the hour of adversity be not without hope. For crystal rain

Thanks, Jackie. I’m sorry that your girls both have autoimmune disorders. They seem to run in families and go together, don’t they? I worry about Katie having one. The vitiligo is pretty harmless other than the cosmetic aspect, which I’m not all that concerned about, but anything that messes with your thyroi or chronic pain is a nightmare. I’m sorry Kristen’s radiation treatment didn’t work. I know Graves is horrendous because I had a hyper swing myself and cannot imagine having that for any longer than I did. Ack! I pray I don’t have another one, but as long as my thyroid continues to have life in it, there’s a chance. I guess I won’t get a flu shot again. I rarely get sick anyway, other than emotionally. You and Kristen are in my thoughts and prayers. I hope the next treatment works for her. Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care!

I get a card every year inviting me to go for my free flu shot as I’m supposedly one of those at risk from complications from the flu, first time I got the card I was 28 and my GP said herself that panic is bad enough without getting the flu too. Of course this year I can’t make it to either of the two times on the card so I’ll have to make an appointment with the assistant… I can get my B12 shot while I’m there! — Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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That site concerned me just a bit. I have a grand daughter who is 7 months old, and she is supposed to have a flu vaccination. I didn’t know they gave them to babies, but apparently, they do. Hope she doesn’t have a bad reaction to that.  I had one son that had a reaction to his last DPT shot that scared me. Glad it was the last one he had to take.

Hey Sally, the regular childhood vaccines in the US no longer contain Thimerosal due to pressure from the public and certain groups but I’m not sure about the flu shot. If you’re concerned about it you can ask about a single dose vaccine as they don’t need to contain any preservatives, the single dose childhood vaccines never did IIRC. — Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Is there a problem with the flu and autoimmune disorders? I never heard this. I have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and vitiligo (harmless one there). I got the flu that year I got a shot (the only shot I’ve ever had) and nothing happened other than I was sick for week or so.

That being sick for a week or two doesn’t sound like the flu, it may have been another bug doing the rounds at that time. Last time I had the real flu (not a really bad cold/sinus stuff etc) it lasted 6 weeks before I was fully better. :-/ The card I got (here in .nl) inviting me to get my free flu shot says it’s for those over 65 plus younger folks with heart, lung or kidney disease, diabetes and those with lowered immune systems. If you think you fall into one of those categories you could ask your doc about it? — Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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::((((((((Kristen & Jackie)))))))))) Thanks WB Hunter Jackie ~*~Nothing lasts forever, not even troubles~*~    ~Arnold H. Glasgow — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Thanks, Jackie. I’m sorry that your girls both have autoimmune disorders. ::They seem to run in families and go together, don’t they? Yes, they sure do! Thyroid problems are common in both mine and my Husband’s families. Kristen’s endo tells her that she was doomed to have a thyroid problem with her family history. My Sister was diagnosed with Hashis a few months after me. We both have young daughters with Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis. Talk about ficked up genes ::I worry about Katie having one. (((((Dawn))))) I understand your fear. ::The vitiligo is pretty harmless other than the cosmetic ::aspect, which I’m not all that concerned about, but anything that messes ::with your thyroi or chronic pain is a nightmare. Yup, it sure is. ::You and Kristen are in my thoughts and prayers. I hope the next treatment ::works for her. We went to the endo and he wants to recheck her in 10 weeks. Her thyroid levels are going down, albeit very slowly. He did say that it can take up to 6 months for it to go down completely. We’re at 3 months. Kristen is a tough cookie. She has been sick for a few years now and is working and going to college full time.  Thanks for your thoughts and prayers! Jackie ~*~Nothing lasts forever, not even troubles~*~    ~Arnold H. Glasgow — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Do you get a flu shot in the winter?" Yep yep every year I get the shot (my doc gave me one last week) and every 5 years (I think) the pneumonia shot as well.  I’ve had the flu twice in my life and NEVER want it again.  Since I’ve been shot up, I have not had the flu.  The only reaction I’ve had from the shot is a sore spot from the injection. For those of you who may not have the extra $ for the shot, you might try your county Health and Human services dept. —  I made appointments for my mom and honey at ours.  We went yesterday. Was quick and free. -frizz — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Jackie: Sorry to hear of Kristen’s illnesses.  I’m fairly new to the group and don’t know all the circumstances of other lives who have been posting here for a while so I’ll just <<<<<Kristen & Jackie and keep you in my prayers and thoughts. -frizz — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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P.S. Kristen goes back to the endo today. It’s looking like the radiation treatment for Grave’s disease she had during the Summer didn’t work. Sigh! She has two options, more radiation or surgery.

((((((((Kristen & Jackie)))))))))) Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Is there a problem with the flu and autoimmune disorders? I never heard ::this. I have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and vitiligo (harmless one there). I ::got the flu that year I got a shot (the only shot I’ve ever had) and nothing ::happened other than I was sick for week or so. Dear Dawn, I was rushed when I wrote my reply, but really should have expounded a bit more. Katie takes two immunosuppressive meds (Enbrel and Methotrexate) for her rheumatoid arthritis. It’s the meds more than her arthritis that make her a candidate for the flu shot. Kristen is still quite sick with Grave’s disease. Her endo encourages her to get the flu shot every year. If Kristen were to get the flu on top of the Grave’s disease, she would be one sick kid. In my opinion, anyone with chronic health conditions should think about getting the flu shot. My son is asthmatic and used to get the flu shot until he became an adult and decided he didn’t need it anymore P.S. Kristen goes back to the endo today. It’s looking like the radiation treatment for Grave’s disease she had during the Summer didn’t work. Sigh! She has two options, more radiation or surgery. Jackie ~*~In the hour of adversity be not without hope. For crystal rain — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care! — _TJ_ Nope. I’m allergic to Thimerisol..the stuff they dilute the flu vaccine in. I can’t have a flu shot, but I’ve not had the flu since I was probably 7 years old, either. Sally Sally, I don’t get flu vaccine either as it gives me a bad reaction. What is Thimerisol?. What are your symptoms? I haven’t had a flu shot for a few years, because when I did,  I felt unwell for a few days and my arm became very swollen and red where the needle went in.. It was swollen about 6 inches round the needle area, and stayed that way for 5 or 6 days till swelling gradually went down and was very itchy. The doctor didn’t say it was an allergic reaction because by the time I would see her again , the swelling had gone down or gone completely. I used to get a flu shot yearly and my arm got swollen at the site of the needle, but not as bad as it became later on. Every year I wonder if I should get it as I have a few medical issues but for the past few years, I decided not to get it. Mary Mary, Margrove could probably tell you more about what Thermerisol (sp?) is. I only know I’ve had reactions to it before. It was a main ingredient in a contact lense cleaning solution that I used. Initially, it didn’t bother me at all, but I suppose I developed an allergy to it. When I would use it, my eyes became extremely bloodshot and painful. I used it a few times, got the same reaction, and I quit using it. And sometime after that, I worked in a doctor’s office, which means all of us gave one another flu vaccines.. they don’t want the staff catching it if it comes in.. I had a similar reaction to you.. my arm swelled and was extremely painful for several days. Don’t remember if I had itching or not, this was a few years ago.. I’d never had that reaction to the flu vaccine before. Not at all – and then I discovered they dilute the vaccine in Thimerisol, so I just knew that was the problem. Some people cannot take the flu vaccine because of an allergy to egg yolks, too. If you wanted to find out for sure, an allergist could test you, I’m sure enough myself that the Thimerisol  is the problem in my case. Hi Sally, Thanks for your reply. Yes, Margrove might know if he’s reading this. I probably wouldn’t go to an allergist. It takes so long to get an appointment and easier for me just not to take the flu shot. .I would love to know what causes me to have a bad reaction to flu shots though. I did a search on Google and various sites came up. One was from the FDA in the US. I am in Canada so don’t know if the same rules apply here by our Food and Drug dept.. http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimfaq.htm It seems to say its ok in vaccines for children which was the concern before, and seems to say its ok to have it in flu vaccines. Most people I know seem to be able to tolerate flu shots ok. But I have other allergies and bad side effects with some medications especially SSRI’s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thimerosal As far as mercury problem, Wikipedia mentions in part that vaccines with thermisol as a preservative only contain a small amount of mercury (25 mcg) and tuna fish in a can can have up to 50 mcg. I don’t know if thimerosal is what causes my problem or not. I just remembered that I had a shot for tenatus about 8 years ago which caused the same reaction as the flu shot does. Swollen and red at area where needle went in and very itchy after a day or two. And was a week before swelling went down.  You could have a little swelling and reddishness but not that much and should clear up in a couple of days or so I would think. At that time my previous doctor said I shouldn’t get tetanus shots. What would happen if I really needed one, I don’t know. I never used to have a problem with flu shots till the last 5 or 6 years ago. I’m not sure if thimerosal is in all vaccines or just some and I am not sure if its in flu vaccines in Canada as we may get the vaccines from a different source than the US. Mary

Mary, I didn’t know they used Thimerosal in other vaccines. IIRC.. I am thinking that when I had my last flu shot, my arm was sore for over a week — I know I posted a few days, but I know it was much longer than a few days… and that’s kind of strange for any kind of shot to hurt that long. I’ve heard of many people who claimed tetanus shots were quite painful for them, I am probably in need of one, myself. I know it’s been quite awhile. I should discuss this with my doctor. I have no idea what they do if you cannot take a tetanus shot and you need one. I believe I’d rather have a sore, itchy arm than lockjaw. I probably have hypersensitivity, not a full blown allergy to the Thimerosal  – I do have a bad allergy to Brazil nuts. Like, they can kill me. That reaction is an anaphylactic reaction, my throat closes up, my tongue swells, and everything I have itches, all at once, even my internal organs. Pretty nasty. Not what I experienced with my last run in with Thimerosal. That site concerned me just a bit. I have a grand daughter who is 7 months old, and she is supposed to have a flu vaccination. I didn’t know they gave them to babies, but apparently, they do. Hope she doesn’t have a bad reaction to that.  I had one son that had a reaction to his last DPT shot that scared me. Glad it was the last one he had to take. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is ::bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always ::get one to avoid this undesirable situation :: ::My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than ::most people who get them here but I don’t care! Hi TJ, I usually get the flu shot every year! I went to my doctor two weeks ago for a checkup and to get the flu shot and was told they aren’t giving flu shots due to a shortage. Yet I’ve read in the newspaper that there is no shortage of shots. Strange! My girls get the flu shot every year being they have autoimmune disorders. They cannot afford to get the flu. Jackie ~*~In the hour of adversity be not without hope. For crystal rain

Jackie, Is there a problem with the flu and autoimmune disorders? I never heard this. I have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and vitiligo (harmless one there). I got the flu that year I got a shot (the only shot I’ve ever had) and nothing happened other than I was sick for week or so. Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care! — _TJ_

Mom and I get our flu shots every year.  The one year I decided I was too perfect for one, I got sick as a dog. Thanks for reminding me! Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is ::bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always ::get one to avoid this undesirable situation :: ::My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than ::most people who get them here but I don’t care! Hi TJ, I usually get the flu shot every year! I went to my doctor two weeks ago for a checkup and to get the flu shot and was told they aren’t giving flu shots due to a shortage. Yet I’ve read in the newspaper that there is no shortage of shots. Strange! My girls get the flu shot every year being they have autoimmune disorders. They cannot afford to get the flu. Jackie ~*~In the hour of adversity be not without hope. For crystal rain — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care! — _TJ_ Nope. I’m allergic to Thimerisol..the stuff they dilute the flu vaccine in. I can’t have a flu shot, but I’ve not had the flu since I was probably 7 years old, either. Sally Sally, I don’t get flu vaccine either as it gives me a bad reaction. What is Thimerisol?. What are your symptoms? I haven’t had a flu shot for a few years, because when I did,  I felt unwell for a few days and my arm became very swollen and red where the needle went in.. It was swollen about 6 inches round the needle area, and stayed that way for 5 or 6 days till swelling gradually went down and was very itchy. The doctor didn’t say it was an allergic reaction because by the time I would see her again , the swelling had gone down or gone completely. I used to get a flu shot yearly and my arm got swollen at the site of the needle, but not as bad as it became later on. Every year I wonder if I should get it as I have a few medical issues but for the past few years, I decided not to get it. Mary Mary, Margrove could probably tell you more about what Thermerisol (sp?) is. I only know I’ve had reactions to it before. It was a main ingredient in a contact lense cleaning solution that I used. Initially, it didn’t bother me at all, but I suppose I developed an allergy to it. When I would use it, my eyes became extremely bloodshot and painful. I used it a few times, got the same reaction, and I quit using it. And sometime after that, I worked in a doctor’s office, which means all of us gave one another flu vaccines.. they don’t want the staff catching it if it comes in.. I had a similar reaction to you.. my arm swelled and was extremely painful for several days. Don’t remember if I had itching or not, this was a few years ago.. I’d never had that reaction to the flu vaccine before. Not at all – and then I discovered they dilute the vaccine in Thimerisol, so I just knew that was the problem. Some people cannot take the flu vaccine because of an allergy to egg yolks, too. If you wanted to find out for sure, an allergist could test you, I’m sure enough myself that the Thimerisol  is the problem in my case.

Hi Sally, Thanks for your reply. Yes, Margrove might know if he’s reading this. I probably wouldn’t go to an allergist. It takes so long to get an appointment and easier for me just not to take the flu shot. .I would love to know what causes me to have a bad reaction to flu shots though. I did a search on Google and various sites came up. One was from the FDA in the US. I am in Canada so don’t know if the same rules apply here by our Food and Drug dept.. http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimfaq.htm It seems to say its ok in vaccines for children which was the concern before, and seems to say its ok to have it in flu vaccines. Most people I know seem to be able to tolerate flu shots ok. But I have other allergies and bad side effects with some medications especially SSRI’s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thimerosal As far as mercury problem, Wikipedia mentions in part that vaccines with thermisol as a preservative only contain a small amount of mercury (25 mcg) and tuna fish in a can can have up to 50 mcg. I don’t know if thimerosal is what causes my problem or not. I just remembered that I had a shot for tenatus about 8 years ago which caused the same reaction as the flu shot does. Swollen and red at area where needle went in and very itchy after a day or two. And was a week before swelling went down.  You could have a little swelling and reddishness but not that much and should clear up in a couple of days or so I would think. At that time my previous doctor said I shouldn’t get tetanus shots. What would happen if I really needed one, I don’t know. I never used to have a problem with flu shots till the last 5 or 6 years ago. I’m not sure if thimerosal is in all vaccines or just some and I am not sure if its in flu vaccines in Canada as we may get the vaccines from a different source than the US. Mary — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care! — _TJ_

A definite NO! Nobody is injecting anything into my body unless I have an absolute 100% guarantee that it will not cause any side effects whatsoever plus that it will do what it is supposedly intended for..ie..to prevent flu. This can’t be guaranted, so no way. Caz — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care! — _TJ_

Nope. I’m allergic to Thimerisol..the stuff they dilute the flu vaccine in. I can’t have a flu shot, but I’ve not had the flu since I was probably 7 years old, either. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care! — _TJ_ Nope. I’m allergic to Thimerisol..the stuff they dilute the flu vaccine in. I can’t have a flu shot, but I’ve not had the flu since I was probably 7 years old, either. Sally

Sally, I don’t get flu vaccine either as it gives me a bad reaction. What is Thimerisol?. What are your symptoms? I haven’t had a flu shot for a few years, because when I did,  I felt unwell for a few days and my arm became very swollen and red where the needle went in.. It was swollen about 6 inches round the needle area, and stayed that way for 5 or 6 days till swelling gradually went down and was very itchy. The doctor didn’t say it was an allergic reaction because by the time I would see her again , the swelling had gone down or gone completely. I used to get a flu shot yearly and my arm got swollen at the site of the needle, but not as bad as it became later on. Every year I wonder if I should get it as I have a few medical issues but for the past few years, I decided not to get it. Mary — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you get a flu shot in the winter?  I find having flu is bad enough without anxiety & panic too!  I always get one to avoid this undesirable situation My doc looks at me funny cos I am younger than most people who get them here but I don’t care! — _TJ_ Nope. I’m allergic to Thimerisol..the stuff they dilute the flu vaccine in. I can’t have a flu shot, but I’ve not had the flu since I was probably 7 years old, either. Sally Sally, I don’t get flu vaccine either as it gives me a bad reaction. What is Thimerisol?. What are your symptoms? I haven’t had a flu shot for a few years, because when I did,  I felt unwell for a few days and my arm became very swollen and red where the needle went in.. It was swollen about 6 inches round the needle area, and stayed that way for 5 or 6 days till swelling gradually went down and was very itchy. The doctor didn’t say it was an allergic reaction because by the time I would see her again , the swelling had gone down or gone completely. I used to get a flu shot yearly and my arm got swollen at the site of the needle, but not as bad as it became later on. Every year I wonder if I should get it as I have a few medical issues but for the past few years, I decided not to get it. Mary

Mary, Margrove could probably tell you more about what Thermerisol (sp?) is. I only know I’ve had reactions to it before. It was a main ingredient in a contact lense cleaning solution that I used. Initially, it didn’t bother me at all, but I suppose I developed an allergy to it. When I would use it, my eyes became extremely bloodshot and painful. I used it a few times, got the same reaction, and I quit using it. And sometime after that, I worked in a doctor’s office, which means all of us gave one another flu vaccines.. they don’t want the staff catching it if it comes in.. I had a similar reaction to you.. my arm swelled and was extremely painful for several days. Don’t remember if I had itching or not, this was a few years ago.. I’d never had that reaction to the flu vaccine before. Not at all – and then I discovered they dilute the vaccine in Thimerisol, so I just knew that was the problem. Some people cannot take the flu vaccine because of an allergy to egg yolks, too. If you wanted to find out for sure, an allergist could test you, I’m sure enough myself that the Thimerisol  is the problem in my case. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Undertaking known reasonable risks in effort to achieve the patient’s objectives is not malpractice. Having a better view with the benefit of hindsight does not suggest the physicians should have done anything different at the time they did it. Physicians operate with imperfect knowledge as the ultimate outcomes of their procedures in every case, and they undertake reasonable risks in attempt to achieve objectives.

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Hi, Earlier this year I discussed the disease of My father with all of you. I am from PAKISTAN. He was died in JULY. As I told earlier Dr. Ahmed Fawad Urologist and Dr Narjis Muzaffar Oncologist gave him five cycles of chemo which caused the kidney failure of my father. I tried very much to make complain about these two doctors but Unsuccessful. I still hope that someone from this forum helps me to pointout the email addresses of  the related person.So I can bring this matter in their knowledge. Dr. Ahmed Fawad Urologist and Dr Narjis Muzaffar Oncologist  cheated me and my father. They did not tell us the truth. Thanks Faraz

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First of all, Faraz and those who may be unfamiliar w/ this case, my take on the situation was that you father probably knew what was going on and just did not tell you. You are under some misconception that they should have discussed and cleared everything w/ you but that is not the way it works. Your father was the patient and the doctors had no duty to discuss his situation w/ you as long as he was competent to make treatment decisions. Indeed, in the U.S. we have laws preventing healthcare providers from disclosing confidential info. I don’t know what you want of the people on this newsgroup – very few live in or have info on the medical profession in Pakistan. Have you even made the obvious step of contacting the Pakistan Medical I sympathze w/ your loss but you need to get over the obsession you have w/ his doctors. A good New Year’s resolution, perhaps. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA .6 Memphis

Response:

Great Response I was not able to help. John Loomis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First of all, Faraz and those who may be unfamiliar w/ this case, my take on the situation was that you father probably knew what was going on and just did not tell you. You are under some misconception that they should have discussed and cleared everything w/ you but that is not the way it works. Your father was the patient and the doctors had no duty to discuss his situation w/ you as long as he was competent to make treatment decisions. Indeed, in the U.S. we have laws preventing healthcare providers from disclosing confidential info. I don’t know what you want of the people on this newsgroup – very few live in or have info on the medical profession in Pakistan. Have you even made the obvious step of contacting the Pakistan Medical I sympathze w/ your loss but you need to get over the obsession you have w/ his doctors. A good New Year’s resolution, perhaps. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA .6 Memphis

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On 29 Nov 2005 16:27:36 -0800, "eileen" <samiamtwo…@yahoo.com> wrote: >For those of us that know this Thomas it does ring that way.  I have an >example how important this info would be to the other part of the >population that is clueless about this. >I friends daughter was suffering from Parsons Turner Syndrome >(Neuralgic amyotrophy) and she was given Percocet.  One night she was >hurting more so she took some acetaminophen not knowing that there was >acetaminophen in the Percocet.  She suffered liver and kidney failure, >went into a coma and suffered brain damage.  [...]

Oh my… I keep forgetting that I’m probably in the minority with my habit of always reading labels. As Kozure pointed out, people apparently think that if something is OTC, it must be safe to take. And the warnings about overdose probably should be a lot more prominent. But I have to wonder why the doctor prescribing the Percocet to your friend’s daughter didn’t warn her about this. If docs don’t bother, how are patients to know? Sad indeed. >By the way how are you?

I’m doing great! No health complaints other than a mild allergy to cats (we have two and don’t want to give them up) that I’m keeping in check with shots. I don’t know whether that’s an aftereffect of tx or not, people get allergies all the time without tx. Everything else is in good shape, LFTs are perfect. Thomas — To reach me, complete my last name in the address.

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On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:30:31 -0500, Thomas Wagner <t…@capecod.com> wrote:

[snipped] "The median dose ingested was 24 g, equivalent to 48 extra-strength tablets. Of these 275 cases of acetaminophen-induced ALF, 131 (48%) were unintentional overdoses…" Begs the question how one ingests 24g of tylenol unintentionally. I mean, what did they *think* they were doing, anyway? Cheers /greyhackles (Maybe all 131 were heppers suffering brain fog?

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On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:14:35 -0500, greyhackles <greyhack…@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote: >On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:30:31 -0500, Thomas Wagner <t…@capecod.com> wrote: >[snipped] >"The median dose ingested was 24 g, >equivalent to 48 extra-strength tablets. Of these 275 cases of >acetaminophen-induced ALF, 131 (48%) were unintentional overdoses…" >Begs the question how one ingests 24g of tylenol unintentionally. >I mean, what did they *think* they were doing, anyway?

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. But it looks like they added up the suicides and the unintentionals and took the median, so they ended up with a nonsensical number. I don’t think anyone unintentionally takes 48 Tylenol pills (or the equivalent from other sources). Thomas — To reach me, complete my last name in the address.

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On 30 Nov 2005 12:18:03 -0800, "eileen" <samiamtwo…@yahoo.com> wrote: >Her parents sued, made enough to keep her well taken care of.  The >worst part is they would give it all back to see her as her former >self.  Her father is very ill and this has put much more strain on the >family as it is.

Although I’m not too fond of malpractice suits in general, in this case it was more than warranted. >I hear you about the cats, my Frankie is 19 and is nearing his time.  I >just can’t do it yet, but thankful that I can give him that ease.  How >old are your cats? Are they pals or one is yours and the other is your >wifes?

We picked both of them from a shelter when they were just 5 and 6 months old, and even though they came from very different households, they were instant pals (male and female, both neutered). They’re both indoor only after bad experiences with our past cats, so it’s great they have each other for company. Felix is the craziest and funniest cat I’ve ever seen, while Sunshine is very shy, almost feral (she came from an old lady’s home with 60 cats), but she has become a lot more trusting over time. Their personalities couldn’t be more different, maybe that’s why they get along so well. 6 months after we got them, I had the allergy test… Thomas — To reach me, complete my last name in the address.

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On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:20:20 -0500, "Sara" <puff…@wowway.com> wrote: >Poisonings From a Popular Pain Reliever Are on the Rise

New at Medscape: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/518380 Acetaminophen May Be a Leading Cause of Acute Liver Failure [...] Dec. 5, 2005

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Meryl"  wrote So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it? Yes, recently. I decided I did not need that person as a friend and have now cut ties. This was after attempts to redress problems. I am wondering if your former friend may have mental health problems herself and possibly may be in denial. It hurts for a while but such relationships are unhealthy. Take care, Meryl Thanks, Meryl. The more responses I read, the more I’m convinced I’ve done the right thing. Deirdre

If it is right for you, then I believe it is the way to go. Take care, Meryl — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations?

   In my case, it wasn’t sudden. I hadn’t been diagnosed at that time, so I didn’t really have a label to put on my disorder, I just knew that I wasn’t normal. So eventually, I told a couple of people in a group I was in what I was feeling, and why I was having trouble with some of the things that were happening in the group. They went around telling others. Pretty soon, it felt like no one was talking to me any more, instead they were talking to my mental illness. If I disagreed with someone, it wasn’t because I thought differently, it was because I needed help. If I told them I’d seen something unusual, it wasn’t because I’d seen it, it was because it was a delusion. They thought of me as mentally ill, and they thought of mental illness as all those psychotics and delusional people they’d seen in movies and in the news. And I couldn’t even correct them, because anything I said was just me refusing to face the truth.    Finally, one guy turned on me and abused me for refusing to agree with him on something he was wrong about, and insisted he was never going to speak to me again until I went into hospital and got treated for my psychotic delusions. He was very blatently wrong, but no one else would stand up for me. So I walked away, and have never spoken to any of them ever again. The emails I got for several years afterwards have been deleted unread.    I had to learn the hard way that you can’t open other people’s minds. How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it?

   Now, I think that cutting off the relationship quickly is best. I wish I hadn’t spent so much time trying to convince others that I wasn’t that different to normal. It just hurt me and convinced them that they were right all along. This leads me to the other part of my question for the group: do you ever find yourself caught in the fear that you’ve brought all this on yourself? That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’, that you’ve talked yourself into it somewhere along the line? How do you get yourself out of this dangerous cycle of self-doubt and self-loathing?

   Some of the problems I’ve got, I think I *have* done to myself. Because I didn’t know any better, and didn’t have access to anyone who could have warned me otherwise. I have spent far too long trying to be nice to people who don’t deserve it, at considerable mental cost to myself.    But I could never have gotten there without a real, underlying problem. And anything I do without considering that real problem is going to just be like piling bandaids onto an infected cut. If I can deal with the anxiety and the depression that it seems to trigger, then I can move on to sort out the problems that have come about because of it. REALESTATE: biggest buy/rent/share listings   http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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"Elliott"   wrote <snip I’ve lost many friends because I wasn’t able to reciprocate in ‘going and doing’, which is paramount in ‘one on one’ relationships – but I consider that the cost of the disorder and leave it at that. I’ve got enough friends and have enough of a life that when I look back, I’m not missing much. Maybe they are?

Man, you’ve got a healthy attitude. "The cost of the disorder". I’m going to work on incorporating that one into my thinking. I have wasted way too much time and energy beating myself up for losing friends because I just couldn’t make myself go to the party. <snip That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’ I’m not crazy in any sense of the word. Do you feel YOU are?

Not at this moment, I’m happy to say. But sometimes, yes I do. I can remember doubting myself, my sanity, my genuineness, other things, as early as age 10. The nagging feeling that I am somehow not being my real self, that my real self is ‘bad’ so I have to work hard at the facade. This feeling still comes and goes at times. I’m still not sure what I do to make it go away. Maybe I get distracted from it. I have a feeling this is something with deep roots that I haven’t dug up yet. Thanks for the good brain food, Elliott. Blog on!

Cogito, ergo bloggo. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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"weeks"  wrote Hi, Deirdre, I’m sorry about your friendship with Mary.  Reading the other posts you have been given good advice and some I would have said myself. Time is too valuable too allow people to judge you based on having a mental health issue… smiles, Elise

Thank you, Elise. I appreciate your support! Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Gigglz" wrote Yah, baaaabeeeeee….lost many friends this way! Fuck ‘em, I say!  It’s THEIR loss! Just because a person becomes ill or terminally ill, doesn’t mean they all of a sudden sprout wings and become angelic.  She is a judgmental bigot, and if that’s how she feels about your anxiety disorder, let her go suck an egg! Unless you can carry on a friendship with her, all the while knowing how she REALLY feels about you (and you can accept it)…I would say good-bye to her now.  This is a choice that SHE made. I’m so sorry.  You are a lovely person and you don’t deserve this. SHE is the one with the real problem, Deirdre! Love, Gigglz ((((((((((((((((GIGGLZ))))))))))))))))))) I love what you wrote here!  It made me sit up straight and say out loud, "Damn right!" Thank you, my friend! Deirdre

Until I adopted this same attitude, rejection was very difficult to deal with. — Ron P Just remember….if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"james" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – many of the people in my family initial reaction to my anxiety disorder hurt me a lot, especially my mothers, and like you I found it hard to deal with, but because I loved them to much I had to deal with their reactions and it help me alot as it forced me to come to realize many things about myself that I might not otherwised have tried to understand, at first it hurt me a lot  because of the stress they caused in me and I shut them out of that part of my life, so when I needed them the most, I felt they where not there for me, I do believe they wanted to help, but if any time I tried to discuss anything about my disorder they, their reaction seem to be automatically abusive as if they didn’t want to hear I had such problems As time past, and I became more accepting of my condition I came to realize that what anyone thought about mt condition didn’t really matter most people are scared of thier own anxieties, they find ways not to deal with them, anger disorder, drinking disorder, drug addition and many different form of mental poblems, and my moms reaction, and your friends reaction, denial of anxieties existance is one way some people do it, they usually are the ones who shut you out at any mention of anxieties , not so much because they hate you all of a sudden but more because their false denial of anxiety would crumble if they where allowed to think otherwise, this in itself is much the same problem we have, just a different automatic reacting to the anxiety and as much as we would like to change our response in order to help us deal with life ( we know how difficult that is), but people who deny anxiety don’t really have a noticable reason to change so it infinately harder for them to break through their small veil of false reasoning, and if and when it does (and I believe it does happen even if with thier dying thoughts) it is harder on them to deal with anxieties I do understand you and it is easy for me to give you my love and compassion, and for your own sake , (when your stress allows) find a way to understand her and forgive her, offer her your love and compassion, I believe this will help you heal, don’t try to change her thoughts only she well be able to do this in her own time, and don’t be surprised if she still reacts negatively to any mention of anxiety, but in your courage, in some small way you might be of help her and other you are bound to meet with this form of dealing with their anxieties, and that well be true love and compassion love Jim

Thanks for your thoughtful response, James. You’ve given me a lot to think about. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Dear Deidre. No, I haven’t had this response from any friends, fortunately. But last week I did actually start to wonder whether my condition was self-inflicted. The reason for this is that I’m coping pretty well with my anxiety at present and I think it’s easy to forget the bad times (in fact, I think it’s one of many coping strategies of mine……when a bad spell is over, forget it and move on). I soon convinced myself otherwise when I brought to mind the times when I was unable to leave my bedroom because of sheer terror whilst going through a severe panic attack. Because those times are now years in the past, it’s easy to forget how it was. It took almost a full second to realise that in no way did I bring this on myself, and that my present relatively anxiety-free (I stress RELATIVELY) state is down mainly to Citalopram and CBT. So it’s not something that I’ve suddenly stopped inflicting on myself. Actually I’ve just remembered one friend who does have a similar attitude towards mental illness that your friend does. Fortunately, I’ve known him for many years and I can understand where he’s coming from as he had a terrible life dealing with a wife with severe mental illness for years. He virtually had to bring up his 2 children on his own whilst going out to work full time because his wife was unable to look after them due to her illness. I see his attitude as a defence mechanism. He has had to be tough for his family, has had to deal with many dreadful situations, and cannot allow himself the admission that maybe he is also vulnerable to mental problems. Again fortunately, he is one of those people who can have a different point of view and still remain a friend. I’m sorry that your friend isn’t the same. I guess they are few and far between, which is why, although I don’t agree with his point of view, I still have great respect for him. I also find it funny that whenever I’ve gone out with him in his car, he always takes great pains to drive very carefully as he knows I’ve had problems travelling anywhere in the past. So I know that he also respects my point of view. Maybe it would help to wonder whether your friend denies the existence of mental illness as a "proper" illness because she is so afraid of it? Take care. Steve.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, I’m wondering if any of you have ever experienced anything like this, and how you handled it. Not long ago, before Mom got sick, I wrote here about my friend in Texas who was very ill. Mary is my age (53), lives alone, and has severe complications from diabetes, including congestive heart failure and kidney failure. We had been very good friends for a couple of years in high school in Iowa; then her family moved to Texas. We lost touch for a long while, but we found each other several years ago. Over the past 6 months we’ve been in close contact via email and messenger. Before Mom got sick I was trying to figure out a way to go spend a week with her, help her out, have some nostalgic laughs, and have a chance to say goodbye — her doctors give her about a year at most. We have always had a lot in common, and I’ve always admired her enthusiasm for life, high intelligence, creativity, and generosity of spirit. But she really shocked me, hurt me deeply, about 8 or 9 days ago. I’m only just now able to write about it. She suddenly realized that I really do have mental disorders — it was as if she hadn’t noticed before– and she said some terribly hurtful things. She was thoroughly disgusted with me. She told me that people with mental illness CHOOSE to be crazy in order not to face their lives. She said that mentally ill people are lazy whiners and are her biggest pet peeve. She basically told me she’ll never feel the same way about me again, that she had lost respect for me. I was stunned. I never thought anything so hateful could come out of her. I thought a long time about trying to change her mind, but I simply didn’t have the energy — I was deeply involved in Mom’s situation, and in my anxiety over so many things. I finally saw that I didn’t need anyone in my life who thinks of me that way, so I cut her out of my life. This is how I’ve always ended bad relationships — a clean quick cut is best, IMO.  I took her email address out of my addressbooks. I set a rule that will highlight any email from her with yellow so I can decide whether or not I want to read it (I couldn’t quite make myself block her email entirely yet, but I may do that in the future, depending on what does or does not happen with her). I removed her from my friends list in messenger, and from my friends list in the blog community she writes in.  I wrote a little bit about it in my blog so if she continues to read it as she has done in the recent past, she’ll see what I did. So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it? I am having a lot of very confused self-talk going on. Sometimes I just hate her, not something I do easily. I try to understand her point of view, but that invariably ends up in wondering, painfully, if maybe she’s right? Maybe I’m just a lazy whiner, maybe I have no ‘backbone’, maybe I’m worthless, maybe I’ve been wasting my time all these years with therapy and meds… so I go through the whole process of challenging the thoughts so I’ll feel better. This leads me to the other part of my question for the group: do you ever find yourself caught in the fear that you’ve brought all this on yourself? That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’, that you’ve talked yourself into it somewhere along the line? How do you get yourself out of this dangerous cycle of self-doubt and self-loathing? It’s about a quarter to 4 in the morning here right now. I haven’t been able to sleep. It’s too late to take a pill — I need to be up by 9. I’ve been worried about Mary because she lives in a town that is going to get hit hard by Hurricane Rita’s rain and wind, tornado watches, flooding. But I’m too stubborn to try to find out if she’s okay. I do still care about her, but how could I talk to her after what she said? Thanks for reading, my friends. All input will be appreciated as always. Love Deirdre Every once in a while, I update my blog. Check it out, and if it’s been more than 2 weeks since I’ve written, please scold me. Thank you. http://home.earthlink.net/~deirdre1952/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Meryl"  wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it? Yes, recently. I decided I did not need that person as a friend and have now cut ties. This was after attempts to redress problems. I am wondering if your former friend may have mental health problems herself and possibly may be in denial. It hurts for a while but such relationships are unhealthy. Take care, Meryl

Thanks, Meryl. The more responses I read, the more I’m convinced I’ve done the right thing. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Gary"  wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife experienced somehting like this several years ago when here mother was terribly ill with a heart condition eventually caused her death. Her mother made a variety of scathing remarks to her and others in her family during this time. The doctor that was treating her, and a priest associated with the hospital both told my wife that situations like this are surprisingly frequent and to try and think past it, handle it with as much grace and deference as she could manage, and not take it personally. It was good advice even though hard to follow. It sounds like your friend with her ilnessses may be in such a situation. It’s not your fault. I think you should handle it in a way that makes you comfortable and lets you move forward with your own life. This may not go for others, but I think I have learned enough about myself and my anxiety/panic syndrome that I view it as a condition that beleageurs me day to day and to a varying degree, and not a condition that defines me, which I "deserve," or which I caused. Having come to see it this way helps me feel stronger. I wish you calmness and peace, Gary

Thank you so much, Gary, for your response. I sometimes have trouble remembering that anxiety and depression are conditions I have, rather than definitions of who I am. Thank you for reminding me of that. I hope you also have calmness and peace. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, I’m wondering if any of you have ever experienced anything like this, and how you handled it. Not long ago, before Mom got sick, I wrote here about my friend in Texas who was very ill. Mary is my age (53), lives alone, and has severe complications from diabetes, including congestive heart failure and kidney failure. We had been very good friends for a couple of years in high school in Iowa; then her family moved to Texas. We lost touch for a long while, but we found each other several years ago. Over the past 6 months we’ve been in close contact via email and messenger. Before Mom got sick I was trying to figure out a way to go spend a week with her, help her out, have some nostalgic laughs, and have a chance to say goodbye — her doctors give her about a year at most. We have always had a lot in common, and I’ve always admired her enthusiasm for life, high intelligence, creativity, and generosity of spirit. But she really shocked me, hurt me deeply, about 8 or 9 days ago. I’m only just now able to write about it. She suddenly realized that I really do have mental disorders — it was as if she hadn’t noticed before– and she said some terribly hurtful things. She was thoroughly disgusted with me. She told me that people with mental illness CHOOSE to be crazy in order not to face their lives. She said that mentally ill people are lazy whiners and are her biggest pet peeve. She basically told me she’ll never feel the same way about me again, that she had lost respect for me. I was stunned. I never thought anything so hateful could come out of her. I thought a long time about trying to change her mind, but I simply didn’t have the energy — I was deeply involved in Mom’s situation, and in my anxiety over so many things. I finally saw that I didn’t need anyone in my life who thinks of me that way, so I cut her out of my life. This is how I’ve always ended bad relationships — a clean quick cut is best, IMO.  I took her email address out of my addressbooks. I set a rule that will highlight any email from her with yellow so I can decide whether or not I want to read it (I couldn’t quite make myself block her email entirely yet, but I may do that in the future, depending on what does or does not happen with her). I removed her from my friends list in messenger, and from my friends list in the blog community she writes in.  I wrote a little bit about it in my blog so if she continues to read it as she has done in the recent past, she’ll see what I did. So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it? I am having a lot of very confused self-talk going on. Sometimes I just hate her, not something I do easily. I try to understand her point of view, but that invariably ends up in wondering, painfully, if maybe she’s right? Maybe I’m just a lazy whiner, maybe I have no ‘backbone’, maybe I’m worthless, maybe I’ve been wasting my time all these years with therapy and meds… so I go through the whole process of challenging the thoughts so I’ll feel better. This leads me to the other part of my question for the group: do you ever find yourself caught in the fear that you’ve brought all this on yourself? That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’, that you’ve talked yourself into it somewhere along the line? How do you get yourself out of this dangerous cycle of self-doubt and self-loathing? It’s about a quarter to 4 in the morning here right now. I haven’t been able to sleep. It’s too late to take a pill — I need to be up by 9. I’ve been worried about Mary because she lives in a town that is going to get hit hard by Hurricane Rita’s rain and wind, tornado watches, flooding. But I’m too stubborn to try to find out if she’s okay. I do still care about her, but how could I talk to her after what she said? Thanks for reading, my friends. All input will be appreciated as always. Love Deirdre Every once in a while, I update my blog. Check it out, and if it’s been more than 2 weeks since I’ve written, please scold me. Thank you. http://home.earthlink.net/~deirdre1952/

My wife experienced somehting like this several years ago when here mother was terribly ill with a heart condition eventually caused her death. Her mother made a variety of scathing remarks to her and others in her family during this time. The doctor that was treating her, and a priest associated with the hospital both told my wife that situations like this are surprisingly frequent and to try and think past it, handle it with as much grace and deference as she could manage, and not take it personally. It was good advice even though hard to follow. It sounds like your friend with her ilnessses may be in such a situation. It’s not your fault. I think you should handle it in a way that makes you comfortable and lets you move forward with your own life. This may not go for others, but I think I have learned enough about myself and my anxiety/panic syndrome that I view it as a condition that beleageurs me day to day and to a varying degree, and not a condition that defines me, which I "deserve," or which I caused. Having come to see it this way helps me feel stronger. I wish you calmness and peace, Gary — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it?

Yes, recently. I decided I did not need that person as a friend and have now cut ties. This was after attempts to redress problems. I am wondering if your former friend may have mental health problems herself and possibly may be in denial. It hurts for a while but such relationships are unhealthy. Take care, Meryl — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi gang, I’m wondering if any of you have ever experienced anything like this, and how you handled it. Not long ago, before Mom got sick, I wrote here about my friend in Texas who was very ill. Mary is my age (53), lives alone, and has severe complications from diabetes, including congestive heart failure and kidney failure. We had been very good friends for a couple of years in high school in Iowa; then her family moved to Texas. We lost touch for a long while, but we found each other several years ago. Over the past 6 months we’ve been in close contact via email and messenger. Before Mom got sick I was trying to figure out a way to go spend a week with her, help her out, have some nostalgic laughs, and have a chance to say goodbye — her doctors give her about a year at most. We have always had a lot in common, and I’ve always admired her enthusiasm for life, high intelligence, creativity, and generosity of spirit. But she really shocked me, hurt me deeply, about 8 or 9 days ago. I’m only just now able to write about it. She suddenly realized that I really do have mental disorders — it was as if she hadn’t noticed before– and she said some terribly hurtful things. She was thoroughly disgusted with me. She told me that people with mental illness CHOOSE to be crazy in order not to face their lives. She said that mentally ill people are lazy whiners and are her biggest pet peeve. She basically told me she’ll never feel the same way about me again, that she had lost respect for me. I was stunned. I never thought anything so hateful could come out of her. I thought a long time about trying to change her mind, but I simply didn’t have the energy — I was deeply involved in Mom’s situation, and in my anxiety over so many things. I finally saw that I didn’t need anyone in my life who thinks of me that way, so I cut her out of my life. This is how I’ve always ended bad relationships — a clean quick cut is best, IMO.  I took her email address out of my addressbooks. I set a rule that will highlight any email from her with yellow so I can decide whether or not I want to read it (I couldn’t quite make myself block her email entirely yet, but I may do that in the future, depending on what does or does not happen with her). I removed her from my friends list in messenger, and from my friends list in the blog community she writes in.  I wrote a little bit about it in my blog so if she continues to read it as she has done in the recent past, she’ll see what I did. So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it? I am having a lot of very confused self-talk going on. Sometimes I just hate her, not something I do easily. I try to understand her point of view, but that invariably ends up in wondering, painfully, if maybe she’s right? Maybe I’m just a lazy whiner, maybe I have no ‘backbone’, maybe I’m worthless, maybe I’ve been wasting my time all these years with therapy and meds… so I go through the whole process of challenging the thoughts so I’ll feel better. This leads me to the other part of my question for the group: do you ever find yourself caught in the fear that you’ve brought all this on yourself? That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’, that you’ve talked yourself into it somewhere along the line? How do you get yourself out of this dangerous cycle of self-doubt and self-loathing? It’s about a quarter to 4 in the morning here right now. I haven’t been able to sleep. It’s too late to take a pill — I need to be up by 9. I’ve been worried about Mary because she lives in a town that is going to get hit hard by Hurricane Rita’s rain and wind, tornado watches, flooding. But I’m too stubborn to try to find out if she’s okay. I do still care about her, but how could I talk to her after what she said? Thanks for reading, my friends. All input will be appreciated as always. Love Deirdre Every once in a while, I update my blog. Check it out, and if it’s been more than 2 weeks since I’ve written, please scold me. Thank you. http://home.earthlink.net/~deirdre1952/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Dennis" wrote <snips along the way

shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it?    When I was about 9, I had a ‘friend’ turn on me badly.  I didn’t see why at the time, but now I see that it was he thought he was second- choice after another friend.  I didn’t end our relationship, which became very abusive.  I had too little confidence to stand up to him. It took me two  years to finally end my relationship with him. I simply refused to have anything to do with him.    It was a very bad experience, which made it much more difficult for me to trust people.

I’m sorry you had to go through that. Letting a bad relationship go on and on does damage. I did that too many times. Now I use the quick clean cut method which carries its own set of emotional bumps, but I still think it’s better. I hope you are happier about your ability to trust. I know it takes a lot of work.  It helps me to think that I am not an evil, bad, lazy, etc. person, not ‘mentally ill’, whatever that means anyway, but just someone who has an overactive nervous system.

I like that "overactive nervous system". That’s going up on the wall, right next to Elliott’s "cost of the disorder". Thanks, Dennis — and I’m glad you’ve come through the Rita mess okay. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"MH"  wrote Hi, Deirdre… I’m sorry, but I don’t see why you would want to keep such a caustic, judgemental person in your life.  I mean… will you *ever* be able to forget the things she said to you?  Won’t you always wonder *what* she is thinking of you?  I know I would… and perhaps I’m projecting. As for your last question, I don’t think I had anything to do with *choosing* this disorder.  I think it’s part of who I am… and the way I am wired.  The only *choice* I have is how I deal with it. I’ve seen crazy, Deirdre…. and let me reassure you, you are not it!! Take care… MikeH

Hi Mike! I know I’ll never forget what she said. I hope I can forgive on some deeper level someday. You packed a lot of good practical wisdom in this post — thanks for reminding me that I have a choice in how I deal with my disorder. Also for telling me I don’t look crazy to you. Makes me smile. Take care back atcha, hugs if you want them, Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

many of the people in my family initial reaction to my anxiety disorder hurt me a lot, especially my mothers, and like you I found it hard to deal with, but because I loved them to much I had to deal with their reactions and it help me alot as it forced me to come to realize many things about myself that I might not otherwised have tried to understand,  at first it hurt me a lot  because of the stress they caused in me and I shut them out of that part of my life, so when I needed them the most, I felt they where not there for me, I do believe they wanted to help, but if any time I tried to discuss anything about my disorder they, their reaction seem to be automatically abusive as if they didn’t want to hear I had such problems  As time past, and I became more accepting of my condition I came to realize that what anyone thought about mt condition didn’t really matter  most people are scared of thier own anxieties, they find ways not to deal with them, anger disorder, drinking disorder, drug addition and many different form of mental poblems, and my moms reaction, and your friends reaction, denial of anxieties existance is one way some people do it, they usually are the ones who shut you out at any mention of anxieties , not so much because they hate you all of a sudden but more because their false denial of anxiety would crumble if they where allowed to think otherwise, this in itself is much the same problem we have, just a different automatic reacting to the anxiety and as much as we would like to change our response in order to help us deal with life ( we know how difficult that is), but people who deny anxiety don’t really have a noticable reason to change so it infinately harder for them to break through their small veil of false reasoning, and if and when it does (and I believe it does happen even if with thier dying thoughts) it is harder on them to deal with anxieties  I do understand you and it is easy for me to give you my love and compassion, and for your own sake , (when your stress allows) find a way to understand her and forgive her, offer her your love and compassion, I believe this will help you heal, don’t try to change her thoughts only she well be able to do this in her own time, and don’t be surprised if she still reacts negatively to any mention of anxiety, but in your courage, in some small way you might be of help her and other you are bound to meet with this form of dealing with their anxieties, and that well be true love and compassion love Jim — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Jacqueline" wrote <snips along the way I`m so sorry that Mary was so cruel to you. It`s mind boggling that some people actually think mental illness is a choice. Your illness is no more a choice than Mary`s diabetes, CHF and kidney failure.

I have been patting myself on the back for refraining from pointing that out to her. It wouldn’t have changed her viewpoint and I would likely have felt uncomfortable with being smug. I think you handled this the only way you could and that was to end the relationship. Who can be friends with someone when there is no longer any respect. I would have done the same thing as you. Mary has lost something precious…. and that is you! I know you feel a sense of loss too

I have always treasured my friends, so yes, I’m feeling a loss. However, in the act of reading all these responses and forming my replies, I feel like I have lost illusions rather than a true friend.  There’s no point in kicking myself for ‘wasting time on her’, which is one of the thoughts that have drifted through my head about this. I didn’t waste any time. I had some fun when it was good, and I’ve learned something about a view of mental illness I didn’t know existed. Is there any chance being Mary is terminally ill, that she is pushing you away on purpose? Sometimes people do the oddest things when they are trying to come to terms with their impending death. It seems odd that all of a sudden, she gets it that you have some mental issues. Something to think about.

I have wondered about this possibility. I have expressed my desire to do things for her when she’s sick quite often, and every time she has pushed it away. I think it’s possible, but I’ll probably never know so I will benefit from letting go of my need to answer this question. What would you tell another poster here about their mental illness? Would you tell them they are worthless, a lazy whiner and brought their craziness upon themselves? I know you wouldn`t! Whatever you would tell another person here, you need to tell yourself.

I wonder where I put that cassette tape of self-esteem affirmations. Hmm. Maybe I’ll make my own. <putting it on the list Also, you are not crazy. You suffer from anxiety and depression, neither of which is insanity.Although sometimes it sure does seem like we are losing our minds

<LOL Ain’t that the truth! Healing thoughts being sent your way! (((((Deirdre)))))

Thank you (((((Jackie))))) P.S. How is your mom? How are you coping with her being home?

She’s very tired. Her recovery continues, but it’s so slow, and she feels frustrated with it. I’m coping enough to do what needs to be done. I feel good when I’m helping her do something. At times like right now, when she’s asleep, I feel tired —  and grateful she’s asleep.  I suppose this is similar to the way a new parent feels when the kidlet finally quits crying and nursing and pooping for a couple of hours. I never had that experience. This is all new to me.  I don’t mind any of it except the bathroom stuff. That’s going to take some getting used to. I’ve had a couple of nights this past week when I didn’t sleep at all because I couldn’t shut off my thoughts. Because she still needs me in the middle of the night sometimes, to help her walk to the bathroom if she’s feeling wobbly, I haven’t taken either a Klonopin or a Trazodone to help me sleep. I need to be available to her. I take a nap when she does, so I do get some sleep eventually, 3-5 hours at a time, a couple times in each 24 hours. Not the best sleep pattern, but not crippling. And here it is, midnight, and I need to get to bed. I still have some posts to answer, so I’d best get busy. HUGS Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Jim MacPherson"  wrote <snips along the way Deirdre,    I’ve never had someone drop me as a friend because of my mental illness, so I can’t relate to that, but anyone who thinks that we "CHOOSE" to be mentally ill is very ignorant.

I agree with you. It seems so odd coming from Mary. She has always seemed to be quite enlightened. Why would people commit suicide? Why would we purposely screw up our entire lives? No one would choose such a fate.

She seems to think we choose it because we’re too lazy to face life. I find that I’m fighting against a common view in society (or what I think is a common view): that we did it to ourselves.

I wonder why I’m only just now finding out that there are people out there who believe that! Thanks for sharing what you’re going through. I wish you all the best. Jim MacPherson

Thanks back to you for sharing your experience and viewpoint. (Nice to meet you, by the way) Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Gigglz" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yah, baaaabeeeeee….lost many friends this way! Fuck ‘em, I say!  It’s THEIR loss! Just because a person becomes ill or terminally ill, doesn’t mean they all of a sudden sprout wings and become angelic.  She is a judgmental bigot, and if that’s how she feels about your anxiety disorder, let her go suck an egg! Unless you can carry on a friendship with her, all the while knowing how she REALLY feels about you (and you can accept it)…I would say good-bye to her now.  This is a choice that SHE made. I’m so sorry.  You are a lovely person and you don’t deserve this. SHE is the one with the real problem, Deirdre! Love, Gigglz

((((((((((((((((GIGGLZ))))))))))))))))))) I love what you wrote here!  It made me sit up straight and say out loud, "Damn right!" Thank you, my friend! Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<little snip In other words you can accept someones behavior as something you disdain and still like or care for the person. After all we are not our behaviors, we are more. You also have the choice of severing ties with her because you will not tolerate her behavior or choose not to and realize that the things you had in common were an illusion. This is ultimately your choice.

Thank you for stating these things so clearly. I have chosen to sever ties. I still care what happens to her, but that doesn’t automatically mean I have to deal with her hurtful behavior. I have lost many so called friends and one wife because of my anxiety issues-the bottom line is I am better off, and they are missing out on being involved with me.

That’s the bottom line that matters! The thing that complicates this is her terminal illness and your guilt that you may be doing the "wrong " thing by not being involved with her when she "needs" you-

Her ‘need’ of me was entirely my misperception and wishful thinking. She is fiercely independent and brushes away offers of assistance like so many gnats. but I would posit that she is not being there when you need her as well and as they say, "one hand washes the other".

The mutuality in our relationship, I see now, was limited to political views, love of language and music, and a bit of our youthful history. Not much in the real give-and-take of genuine frienships. I sought her out; she rarely reciprocated. <snip There is no blame here-just her ideologies vrs yours.

I’m always a little sad to see someone identify with an ideology that generates irrational/misinformed dislike of other people. But, to put it bluntly, it’s not my job to fix her thoughts. She’s on her own with this one now. And I’m better off.  Someone once told me, "When you learn something, *at first* it can feel like you’ve lost something." Thanks, Margrove, for your thoughtful input. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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"Deirdre  Moore"  wrote : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But she really shocked me, hurt me deeply, about 8 or 9 days ago. I’m only just now able to write about it. She suddenly realized that I really do have mental disorders — it was as if she hadn’t noticed before– and she said some terribly hurtful things. She was thoroughly disgusted with me. She told me that people with mental illness CHOOSE to be crazy in order not to face their lives. She said that mentally ill people are lazy whiners and are her biggest pet peeve. She basically told me she’ll never feel the same way about me again, that she had lost respect for me. I was stunned. I never thought anything so hateful could come out of her. I thought a long time about trying to change her mind, but I simply didn’t have the energy — I was deeply involved in Mom’s situation, and in my anxiety over so many things. I finally saw that I didn’t need anyone in my life who thinks of me that way, so I cut her out of my life. This is how I’ve always ended bad relationships — a clean quick cut is best, IMO.  I took her email address out of my addressbooks. I set a rule that will highlight any email from her with yellow so I can decide whether or not I want to read it (I couldn’t quite make myself block her email entirely yet, but I may do that in the future, depending on what does or does not happen with her). I removed her from my friends list in messenger, and from my friends list in the blog community she writes in.  I wrote a little bit about it in my blog so if she continues to read it as she has done in the recent past, she’ll see what I did.

        That’s horrible!  I think you did the right thing.  You don’t need a ‘friend’ like that. So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it?

        When I was about 9, I had a ‘friend’ turn on me badly.  I didn’t see why at the time, but now I see that it was he thought he was second- choice after another friend.  I didn’t end our relationship, which became very abusive.  I had too little confidence to stand up to him.   It took me two  years to finally end my relationship with him. I simply refused to have anything to do with him.    It was a very bad experience, which made it much more difficult for me to trust people.   This leads me to the other part of my question for the group: do you ever find yourself caught in the fear that you’ve brought all this on yourself? That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’, that you’ve talked yourself into it somewhere along the line? How do you get yourself out of this dangerous cycle of self-doubt and self-loathing?

        Yes.  In the past I had abusive therapists who played into that. I still have trouble with that.           It helps me to think that I am not an evil, bad, lazy, etc. person, not ‘mentally ill’, whatever that means anyway, but just someone who has an overactive nervous system.   Dennis — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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She was thoroughly disgusted with me. She told me that people with mental illness CHOOSE to be crazy in order not to face their lives. She said that mentally ill people are lazy whiners and are her biggest pet peeve.

Deirdre,     I’ve never had someone drop me as a friend because of my mental illness, so I can’t relate to that, but anyone who thinks that we "CHOOSE" to be mentally ill is very ignorant. Why would people commit suicide? Why would we purposely screw up our entire lives? No one would choose such a fate. I’ve been mentally ill since age 15 and have now just turned 40. It’s been hell. I can trace back all the events that lead to the beginning and continuation of my anxiety and depression. This leads me to the other part of my question for the group: do you ever find yourself caught in the fear that you’ve brought all this on yourself? That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’, that you’ve talked yourself into it somewhere along the line? How do you get yourself out of this dangerous cycle of self-doubt and self-loathing?

As I mentioned above, I can trace the events that lead to my illness. That’s how I try to handle the fear that I’ve brought it all on myself. I find that I’m fighting against a common view in society (or what I think is a common view): that we did it to ourselves. Again, only the ignorant feel that way toward mentally ill people, and who cares what ignorant people think? I’m trying to learn to forget about what they think and go with what enlightened people think. Thanks for sharing what you’re going through. I wish you all the best. Jim MacPherson — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Hi, Deirdre… I’m sorry, but I don’t see why you would want to keep such a caustic, judgemental person in your life.  I mean… will you *ever* be able to forget the things she said to you?  Won’t you always wonder *what* she is thinking of you?  I know I would… and perhaps I’m projecting. As for your last question, I don’t think I had anything to do with *choosing* this disorder.  I think it’s part of who I am… and the way I am wired.  The only *choice* I have is how I deal with it. I’ve seen crazy, Deirdre…. and let me reassure you, you are not it!! Take care… MikeH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, I’m wondering if any of you have ever experienced anything like this, and how you handled it. Not long ago, before Mom got sick, I wrote here about my friend in Texas who was very ill. Mary is my age (53), lives alone, and has severe complications from diabetes, including congestive heart failure and kidney failure. We had been very good friends for a couple of years in high school in Iowa; then her family moved to Texas. We lost touch for a long while, but we found each other several years ago. Over the past 6 months we’ve been in close contact via email and messenger. Before Mom got sick I was trying to figure out a way to go spend a week with her, help her out, have some nostalgic laughs, and have a chance to say goodbye — her doctors give her about a year at most. We have always had a lot in common, and I’ve always admired her enthusiasm for life, high intelligence, creativity, and generosity of spirit. But she really shocked me, hurt me deeply, about 8 or 9 days ago. I’m only just now able to write about it. She suddenly realized that I really do have mental disorders — it was as if she hadn’t noticed before– and she said some terribly hurtful things. She was thoroughly disgusted with me. She told me that people with mental illness CHOOSE to be crazy in order not to face their lives. She said that mentally ill people are lazy whiners and are her biggest pet peeve. She basically told me she’ll never feel the same way about me again, that she had lost respect for me. I was stunned. I never thought anything so hateful could come out of her. I thought a long time about trying to change her mind, but I simply didn’t have the energy — I was deeply involved in Mom’s situation, and in my anxiety over so many things. I finally saw that I didn’t need anyone in my life who thinks of me that way, so I cut her out of my life. This is how I’ve always ended bad relationships — a clean quick cut is best, IMO.  I took her email address out of my addressbooks. I set a rule that will highlight any email from her with yellow so I can decide whether or not I want to read it (I couldn’t quite make myself block her email entirely yet, but I may do that in the future, depending on what does or does not happen with her). I removed her from my friends list in messenger, and from my friends list in the blog community she writes in.  I wrote a little bit about it in my blog so if she continues to read it as she has done in the recent past, she’ll see what I did. So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it? I am having a lot of very confused self-talk going on. Sometimes I just hate her, not something I do easily. I try to understand her point of view, but that invariably ends up in wondering, painfully, if maybe she’s right? Maybe I’m just a lazy whiner, maybe I have no ‘backbone’, maybe I’m worthless, maybe I’ve been wasting my time all these years with therapy and meds… so I go through the whole process of challenging the thoughts so I’ll feel better. This leads me to the other part of my question for the group: do you ever find yourself caught in the fear that you’ve brought all this on yourself? That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’, that you’ve talked yourself into it somewhere along the line? How do you get yourself out of this dangerous cycle of self-doubt and self-loathing? It’s about a quarter to 4 in the morning here right now. I haven’t been able to sleep. It’s too late to take a pill — I need to be up by 9. I’ve been worried about Mary because she lives in a town that is going to get hit hard by Hurricane Rita’s rain and wind, tornado watches, flooding. But I’m too stubborn to try to find out if she’s okay. I do still care about her, but how could I talk to her after what she said? Thanks for reading, my friends. All input will be appreciated as always. Love Deirdre

 . — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, I’m wondering if any of you have ever experienced anything like this, and how you handled it. Not long ago, before Mom got sick, I wrote here about my friend in Texas who was very ill. Mary is my age (53), lives alone, and has severe complications from diabetes, including congestive heart failure and kidney failure. We had been very good friends for a couple of years in high school in Iowa; then her family moved to Texas. We lost touch for a long while, but we found each other several years ago. Over the past 6 months we’ve been in close contact via email and messenger. Before Mom got sick I was trying to figure out a way to go spend a week with her, help her out, have some nostalgic laughs, and have a chance to say goodbye — her doctors give her about a year at most. We have always had a lot in common, and I’ve always admired her enthusiasm for life, high intelligence, creativity, and generosity of spirit. But she really shocked me, hurt me deeply, about 8 or 9 days ago. I’m only just now able to write about it. She suddenly realized that I really do have mental disorders — it was as if she hadn’t noticed before– and she said some terribly hurtful things. She was thoroughly disgusted with me. She told me that people with mental illness CHOOSE to be crazy in order not to face their lives. She said that mentally ill people are lazy whiners and are her biggest pet peeve. She basically told me she’ll never feel the same way about me again, that she had lost respect for me. I was stunned. I never thought anything so hateful could come out of her. I thought a long time about trying to change her mind, but I simply didn’t have the energy — I was deeply involved in Mom’s situation, and in my anxiety over so many things. I finally saw that I didn’t need anyone in my life who thinks of me that way, so I cut her out of my life. This is how I’ve always ended bad relationships — a clean quick cut is best, IMO.  I took her email address out of my addressbooks. I set a rule that will highlight any email from her with yellow so I can decide whether or not I want to read it (I couldn’t quite make myself block her email entirely yet, but I may do that in the future, depending on what does or does not happen with her). I removed her from my friends list in messenger, and from my friends list in the blog community she writes in.  I wrote a little bit about it in my blog so if she continues to read it as she has done in the recent past, she’ll see what I did. So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it? I am having a lot of very confused self-talk going on.

you have the choice of accepting her ignorance and bigotry, narrowmindedness and lack of empathy (something she will insist you have of her and her problems, by the way) and rejecting her behavior as that of someone who manifests the beforementioned traits. In other words you can accept someones behavior as something you disdain and still like or care for the person. After all we are not our behaviors, we are more. You also have the choice of severing ties with her because you will not tolerate her behavior or choose not to and realize that the things you had in common were an illusion. This is ultimately your choice. I have lost many so called friends and one wife because of my anxiety issues-the bottom line is I am better off, and they are missing out on being involved with me. The thing that complicates this is her terminal illness and your guilt that you may be doing the "wrong " thing by not being involved with her when she "needs" you-but I would posit that she is not being there when you need her as well and as they say, "one hand washes the other".  Either way, you will feel better and not generate such dissonant thinking if you clearly see, she wants something from you she plainly wil not offer and that any relationship relies on reciprocal feelings and behaviors-nice begets nice, love love and so forth. There is no blame here-just her ideologies vrs yours..  Sometimes I just hate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -her, not something I do easily. I try to understand her point of view, but that invariably ends up in wondering, painfully, if maybe she’s right? Maybe I’m just a lazy whiner, maybe I have no ‘backbone’, maybe I’m worthless, maybe I’ve been wasting my time all these years with therapy and meds… so I go through the whole process of challenging the thoughts so I’ll feel better. This leads me to the other part of my question for the group: do you ever find yourself caught in the fear that you’ve brought all this on yourself? That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’, that you’ve talked yourself into it somewhere along the line? How do you get yourself out of this dangerous cycle of self-doubt and self-loathing? It’s about a quarter to 4 in the morning here right now. I haven’t been able to sleep. It’s too late to take a pill — I need to be up by 9. I’ve been worried about Mary because she lives in a town that is going to get hit hard by Hurricane Rita’s rain and wind, tornado watches, flooding. But I’m too stubborn to try to find out if she’s okay. I do still care about her, but how could I talk to her after what she said? Thanks for reading, my friends. All input will be appreciated as always. Love Deirdre Every once in a while, I update my blog. Check it out, and if it’s been more than 2 weeks since I’ve written, please scold me. Thank you. http://home.earthlink.net/~deirdre1952/

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Deirdre, I’m sorry about your friendship with Mary.  Reading the other posts you have been given good advice and some I would have said myself. Time is too valuable too allow people to judge you based on having a mental health issue… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, I’m wondering if any of you have ever experienced anything like this, and how you handled it. Not long ago, before Mom got sick, I wrote here about my friend in Texas who was very ill. Mary is my age (53), lives alone, and has severe complications from diabetes, including congestive heart failure and kidney failure. We had been very good friends for a couple of years in high school in Iowa; then her family moved to Texas. We lost touch for a long while, but we found each other several years ago. Over the past 6 months we’ve been in close contact via email and messenger. Before Mom got sick I was trying to figure out a way to go spend a week with her, help her out, have some nostalgic laughs, and have a chance to say goodbye — her doctors give her about a year at most. We have always had a lot in common, and I’ve always admired her enthusiasm for life, high intelligence, creativity, and generosity of spirit. But she really shocked me, hurt me deeply, about 8 or 9 days ago. I’m only just now able to write about it. She suddenly realized that I really do have mental disorders — it was as if she hadn’t noticed before– and she said some terribly hurtful things. She was thoroughly disgusted with me. She told me that people with mental illness CHOOSE to be crazy in order not to face their lives. She said that mentally ill people are lazy whiners and are her biggest pet peeve. She basically told me she’ll never feel the same way about me again, that she had lost respect for me. I was stunned. I never thought anything so hateful could come out of her. I thought a long time about trying to change her mind, but I simply didn’t have the energy — I was deeply involved in Mom’s situation, and in my anxiety over so many things. I finally saw that I didn’t need anyone in my life who thinks of me that way, so I cut her out of my life. This is how I’ve always ended bad relationships — a clean quick cut is best, IMO.  I took her email address out of my addressbooks. I set a rule that will highlight any email from her with yellow so I can decide whether or not I want to read it (I couldn’t quite make myself block her email entirely yet, but I may do that in the future, depending on what does or does not happen with her). I removed her from my friends list in messenger, and from my friends list in the blog community she writes in.  I wrote a little bit about it in my blog so if she continues to read it as she has done in the recent past, she’ll see what I did. So — have you ever had a friend suddenly turn on you so shockingly that you had to sever relations? How did you handle the pain of rejection, the shock, etc?  What is your opinion of how I’m trying to handle it? I am having a lot of very confused self-talk going on. Sometimes I just hate her, not something I do easily. I try to understand her point of view, but that invariably ends up in wondering, painfully, if maybe she’s right? Maybe I’m just a lazy whiner, maybe I have no ‘backbone’, maybe I’m worthless, maybe I’ve been wasting my time all these years with therapy and meds… so I go through the whole process of challenging the thoughts so I’ll feel better. This leads me to the other part of my question for the group: do you ever find yourself caught in the fear that you’ve brought all this on yourself? That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’, that you’ve talked yourself into it somewhere along the line? How do you get yourself out of this dangerous cycle of self-doubt and self-loathing? It’s about a quarter to 4 in the morning here right now. I haven’t been able to sleep. It’s too late to take a pill — I need to be up by 9. I’ve been worried about Mary because she lives in a town that is going to get hit hard by Hurricane Rita’s rain and wind, tornado watches, flooding. But I’m too stubborn to try to find out if she’s okay. I do still care about her, but how could I talk to her after what she said? Thanks for reading, my friends. All input will be appreciated as always. Love Deirdre Every once in a while, I update my blog. Check it out, and if it’s been more than 2 weeks since I’ve written, please scold me. Thank you. http://home.earthlink.net/~deirdre1952/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<Gently snipped ::This leads me to the other part of my question for the group: do you ever ::find yourself caught in the fear that you’ve brought all this on yourself? ::That maybe, deep down, you WANT to be ‘crazy’, that you’ve talked yourself ::into it somewhere along the line? How do you get yourself out of this ::dangerous cycle of self-doubt and self-loathing? Dear Deirdre, I`m so sorry that Mary was so cruel to you. It`s mind boggling that some people actually think mental illness is a choice. Your illness is no more a choice than Mary`s diabetes, CHF and kidney failure. I wonder sometimes if peoples ignorance about mental illness is more a cover-up for fear of mental illness. Maybe for Mary it`s easier for her to believe it is a "personal" choice rather than a illness that can strike anybody… at anytime. I think you handled this the only way you could and that was to end the relationship. Who can be friends with someone when there is no longer any respect. I would have done the same thing as you. Mary has lost something precious…. and that is you! I know you feel a sense of loss too Is there any chance being Mary is terminally ill, that she is pushing you away on purpose? Sometimes people do the oddest things when they are trying to come to terms with their impending death. It seems odd that all of a sudden, she gets it that you have some mental issues. Something to think about. What would you tell another poster here about their mental illness? Would you tell them they are worthless, a lazy whiner and brought their craziness upon themselves? I know you wouldn`t! Whatever you would tell another person here, you need to tell yourself. Also, you are not crazy. You suffer from anxiety and depression, neither of which is insanity. Although sometimes it sure does seem like we are losing our minds Healing thoughts being sent your way! (((((Deirdre))))) P.S. How is your mom? How are you coping with her being home? Jackie ~*~I`m an angel! Honest The horns are just there to keep my halo up straight~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois — Burmese are like potato chips, you can’t just have one.

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth,

Purrs for Cleo’s successful op from us lot, who’ve BTDT. Gordon, Bandit, Snowball (& Raki who hasn’t)

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois — Burmese are like potato chips, you can’t just have one.

Lois, I have just seen this.   Ken must be so upset about Cleo.   But the good news has to be it is not kidney disease and the tooth should be able to be removed successfully. Purrs and good thoughts that Cleo will be OK.   Bev — Dogs may shed, but cats shred.

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois — Burmese are like potato chips, you can’t just have one.

It is definitely a better proposition than a lot of things. Purrs the procedure goes well.

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois — Purrs she comes through. Suz&Spicey

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Purrs for an easy surgery for Cleo and a quick recovery!  I’m sure she’ll feel much better after the tooth is removed. Debbie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois — Burmese are like potato chips, you can’t just have one.

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure.

Purrs that Cleo comes through the procedure with flying colors! Hugs, CatNipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Purrs Lois — Burmese are like potato chips, you can’t just have one.

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Purring and praying that Cleo comes through everything well. Lily & her mama Jazz, RB — Irulan from the stars we come to the stars we return from now until the end of time

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois — Burmese are like potato chips, you can’t just have one.

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure.

Sending extra purrs.  We’ve been there.  I’m never wild about cats and anesthesia, and the older or more exotic the cat, the more nervous it makes me.  But they have always been fine.  My vet share and understands my concerns and always calls me as soon as they are out from under to let me know it went well. Jo

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois

Purrs for Cleo’s dental procedure to go smoothly, and purrs, headbutts, and hugs for your jangled nerves. Purrs and Hugs, Nan

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure.

Purrs that Cleo come through her surgery just fine! Just been there with Mr. Pumpkin, who at the age of 14 had 4 teeth removed, what a wreck I was.  The purrs and prayers from the group helped a great deal.  Please be sure to let us know how Cleo is after her surgery and also how you are. Charleen Mr. Pumpkin Aggie Marble Victor Velcro

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois

"Purrs that Cleo will be fine…."   MLB

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Purrs on the way for Cleo. Ann — read Sam’s blog at http://kittens-3.blogspot.com/ see pictures of Sam at http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ann791/my_photos

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois — Burmese are like potato chips, you can’t just have one.

Response:

Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois

Purrs for Cleo, I’m glad a cause has been found, she will be fine soon. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois — Burmese are like potato chips, you can’t just have one.

 Purrs for a successful extraction for Cleo. If she’s in good health for her age, it should help her come through the procedure all right. I hope so! Melissa

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TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure.

   How did it go?  Fingers crossed that Cleo is A-OK.  Purrs coming.    Jeanne

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure.

Purrs on their way.  And my cats have just had a tin of tuna, so the purrs are really rather loud. — Mogget

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Best wishes and purrs for Cleo. Please let us know how she does.

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure.

Many purrs for Cleo’s surgery (probably too late, but purrs for her recovery, then). — Marina, Frank and Miranda. In loving memory of Nikki. marina (dot) kurten (at) iki (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

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Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure.

Glad to hear that the problem can be fixed. Purrs that all goes well and she recovers quickly. And of course purrs for her worried hoomins. — Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Spot with loving memories of Rocky (RB) Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

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[[Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois]] I’m glad it’s something that TED can treat. Purrs continuing that her tooth extraction proceeds smoothly and that her recovery is rapid. Donna, Captain, and Stanley

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I’m so glad to hear Cleo will be ok. Lots of purrs and best wishes for the dental to go really well, — Polonca & Soncek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Back from seeing TED, Cleo has an abscessed tooth, TED gave her a good check over and said for her age she is in good nick, but the tooth has to come out, we left her there, somewhat reluctantly, TED will remove the tooth in the morning, not much sleep for us tonight, at her age it is probably a risky procedure. Purrs Lois — Burmese are like potato chips, you can’t just have one.

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It’s not very good news, I’m afraid, although I don’t have any specific answers yet.  The vet thinks it may be her kidneys.  They had to give her subQ fluids and they did a complete blood work-up.  The vet will call me with the results tomorrow. I’m now $255 poorer and I’ll have to have a "discussion" about that with DH tonight (he only told me about 20 times that we can’t afford a big vet’s bill right now, but heck, I also operate under the assumption that it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission . I’ll let you guys know as soon as I know anything tomorrow, but please keep the purrs coming for now. Hugs, CatNipped

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not very good news, I’m afraid, although I don’t have any specific answers yet.  The vet thinks it may be her kidneys.  They had to give her subQ fluids and they did a complete blood work-up. The vet will call me with the results tomorrow. I’m now $255 poorer and I’ll have to have a "discussion" about that with DH tonight (he only told me about 20 times that we can’t afford a big vet’s bill right now, but heck, I also operate under the assumption that it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission . I’ll let you guys know as soon as I know anything tomorrow, but please keep the purrs coming for now. Hugs, CatNipped

Will keep purring for Jessie and your finances. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not very good news, I’m afraid, although I don’t have any specific answers yet.  The vet thinks it may be her kidneys.  They had to give her subQ fluids and they did a complete blood work-up. The vet will call me with the results tomorrow. I’m now $255 poorer and I’ll have to have a "discussion" about that with DH tonight (he only told me about 20 times that we can’t afford a big vet’s bill right now, but heck, I also operate under the assumption that it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission . I’ll let you guys know as soon as I know anything tomorrow, but please keep the purrs coming for now. Hugs, CatNipped

More, more and more purrs coming for Jessie that all will be well. Charleen and the chorus of purrers Mr. Pumpkin, Aggie Marble, Victor Velcro.

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Hi, if you don’t mind, I’m going to steal your comment below for my new personal motto:

I also operate under the assumption that it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission . — Shirley B. Rexie’s Mom To Reply by email: remove ‘nick’ Pictures of His Majesty, Rex are at: http://community.webshots.com/album/255873683SwWQZJ AND OUR HOMEPAGE:  http://jumi-shirley-butler.com

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OK, DH is home and it wasn’t as bad as I feared – just a few minutes of the silent treatment then a threat to make me take over the finances if I keep over-riding his financial decisions (the worst of it since me doing the checkbook would be a disaster!!!), and then a short lecture, then forgiveness (with a bit more lecture thrown in).  All in all I got off relatively easy!  ; I wasn’t really worried, Jessie is his special girl! Hugs, CatNipped

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not very good news, I’m afraid, although I don’t have any specific answers yet.  The vet thinks it may be her kidneys.  They had to give her subQ fluids and they did a complete blood work-up.  The vet will call me with the results tomorrow. I’m now $255 poorer and I’ll have to have a "discussion" about that with DH tonight (he only told me about 20 times that we can’t afford a big vet’s bill right now, but heck, I also operate under the assumption that it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission . I’ll let you guys know as soon as I know anything tomorrow, but please keep the purrs coming for now. Hugs, CatNipped

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Oh dear! We’ll keep up the purrs. Suz&Spicey

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not very good news, I’m afraid, although I don’t have any specific answers yet.  The vet thinks it may be her kidneys.  They had to give her subQ fluids and they did a complete blood work-up.  The vet will call me with the results tomorrow. I’m now $255 poorer and I’ll have to have a "discussion" about that with DH tonight (he only told me about 20 times that we can’t afford a big vet’s bill right now, but heck, I also operate under the assumption that it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission . I’ll let you guys know as soon as I know anything tomorrow, but please keep the purrs coming for now. Hugs, CatNipped

Oh nooooooOOoooooOOoooo!!  CN, if you need a donation, let me know.  And please keep us all updated.  I’ve got so many purrs going that God thinks I’m the alpha cat here!! And don’t forget to take care of you too!! —

That’s great news!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brother is doing well, his bone scan is completely clear, Aunt had her surgery, they removed, 60 percent of her pancreas and think she is not going to be diabetic, and they think they got all the cancer.  Lee I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. Oh well, there are always more messages to get caught up on! in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee Sorry to hear about your brother and aunt.  You’re right, it doesn’t seem to lighten up for long.  You make a good point about being OP.  Something for all of us to think about since we all probably fall off program when something comes up.  I know I do.

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thanks, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s great news! Brother is doing well, his bone scan is completely clear, Aunt had her surgery, they removed, 60 percent of her pancreas and think she is not going to be diabetic, and they think they got all the cancer.  Lee I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. Oh well, there are always more messages to get caught up on! in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee Sorry to hear about your brother and aunt.  You’re right, it doesn’t seem to lighten up for long.  You make a good point about being OP.  Something for all of us to think about since we all probably fall off program when something comes up.  I know I do.

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I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why.

Oh well, there are always more messages to get caught up on! in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee

Sorry to hear about your brother and aunt.  You’re right, it doesn’t seem to lighten up for long.  You make a good point about being OP.  Something for all of us to think about since we all probably fall off program when something comes up.  I know I do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Brother is doing well, his bone scan is completely clear, Aunt had her surgery, they removed, 60 percent of her pancreas and think she is not going to be diabetic, and they think they got all the cancer.  Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. Oh well, there are always more messages to get caught up on! in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee Sorry to hear about your brother and aunt.  You’re right, it doesn’t seem to lighten up for long.  You make a good point about being OP.  Something for all of us to think about since we all probably fall off program when something comes up.  I know I do.

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it has been stressful watching my parents suffer, they are wonderful people, again thanks for the support, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s excellent news about the bone scan.  Sometimes agressive procedures can cause more harm than good.  As I mentioned previously a scan two years ago showed something tiny under my arm but I have had twice annual scans since then and it has not increased in size.  It sounds like your brother has already gone through a lot and his doctor wants him to heal and continue to get stronger.  I imagine this has been very stressful for you too. I asked my mom and because of where they are positioned there is some issue that I didn’t understand, they are very small and the doctor wants to just watch them instead of doing a biopsy for now, from what I did understand it seems a very conservative way to deal with it.  I guess either way the good news is that his bone scan came back completely clear, Lee, not understanding it all Lumps too small to biopsy? Wrinkled forehead. I would advise a second opinion. They can biopsy a blackhead if they want to. — Lesanne I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee

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I asked my mom and because of where they are positioned there is some issue that I didn’t understand, they are very small and the doctor wants to just watch them instead of doing a biopsy for now, from what I did understand it seems a very conservative way to deal with it.  I guess either way the good news is that his bone scan came back completely clear, Lee, not understanding it all

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lumps too small to biopsy? Wrinkled forehead. I would advise a second opinion. They can biopsy a blackhead if they want to. — Lesanne I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee

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The concern with my brother is that he just had a kidney removed that had 2 tumors in it, both cancer, he is also an extremely brittle diabetic so those concerns complicate everything, thanks, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee Tiny lumps can stay tiny a very long time.  I’ve have some we are simply watching so live just goes on. Audrey

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Lumps too small to biopsy? Wrinkled forehead. I would advise a second opinion. They can biopsy a blackhead if they want to. — Lesanne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee

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The doctors have given my aunt 2 weeks to decide about surgery, after that point all they will offer is palliative care, tough for her to decide, thanks for the support, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry about the bad news. But I guess you are right – there is always something and you can’t wait till it all stops – it won’t. Hope everything works out I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee

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That’s excellent news about the bone scan.  Sometimes agressive procedures can cause more harm than good.  As I mentioned previously a scan two years ago showed something tiny under my arm but I have had twice annual scans since then and it has not increased in size.  It sounds like your brother has already gone through a lot and his doctor wants him to heal and continue to get stronger.  I imagine this has been very stressful for you too.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I asked my mom and because of where they are positioned there is some issue that I didn’t understand, they are very small and the doctor wants to just watch them instead of doing a biopsy for now, from what I did understand it seems a very conservative way to deal with it.  I guess either way the good news is that his bone scan came back completely clear, Lee, not understanding it all Lumps too small to biopsy? Wrinkled forehead. I would advise a second opinion. They can biopsy a blackhead if they want to. — Lesanne I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee

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I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was doing so well with catching up but the computer ate most of the messages, and if I didn’t answer or comment as you thought I should that is the reason why. in better/worse news, the lumps under my brother’s arms are too small to biopsy, but my aunt is now suffering with pancreatic cancer, it never seems to lighten up for long, and I am wailing about all of this just to say, don’t put off being on program because there is always another crisis, or celebration, or stress, and the truth is time is too short to not be as healthy as possible so can have the full measure of enjoyment due you, Lee

Tiny lumps can stay tiny a very long time.  I’ve have some we are simply watching so live just goes on. Audrey

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PS….I’ve also had Pet Scans and that’s how we knew that my cancer recur [11/02] had not gone beyond the breast. I’ve also had Abdominal CT and Bone Scans that have settled questions about somewhat elevated blood levels. It’s been proven time after time that these tests are very beneficial to alot of people. The fact that so many of us are still here is testimony to the testing procedures that are available to us now. Again, I’m sorry that things have not gone well for you…but please don’t trash what goes on in other states and facilities that you know nothing about seeing as how you are only familiar with the conditions in one area of Texas. New posters are logging on everyday and you’re not helping, all you’re doing is scaring them into either not trusting anyone, therefore not going for treatments or exams to find out what’s going on, or not taking the treatments that are being suggested to them by their doctors. Please try believing in someone, so you can get your life on a better path. And just because what you know of religion and Christians has been less then a favorable expierence, please don’t judge everyone, based on a few. We’re not them! annie

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New posters are logging on everyday and you’re not helping, all you’re doing is scaring them into either not trusting anyone, therefore not going for treatments or exams to find out what’s going on, or not taking the treatments that are being suggested to them by their doctors.

I’ve said this before, thanks, Annie, for your support. The other people on the group, especially newcomers who are frightened and don’t know where to turn, are the people we should be thinking of more than anything else. Mary

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I’m sorry that you feel as you do about these tests, that these tests are not useful in the detection of heart conditions. Obviously, alot of know they are because people are being successfully treated everyday for various heart related conditions. They are lving very healthy fulfilling lives as a result of being dx and treated promptly. My mother for one, and other relatives have been given these scans to rule things out as well. I’ve had a Muga Scan prior to starting AC. This is required here. You can’t have chemo unless you have this scan. They need to know what the extraction rate is, as Adrimycin is very toxic to the heart. My extraction rate after my scan was done was 78%, which my onco nurse told me was very good. Average is around 50%-65%. It has to be above 55% for you to recieve Adrimycin for your treatment. Were you given a Muga Scan prior to your chemo treatments? You more then likely had a heart condition prior to your treatments as others have mentioned in regards to your previous posts over the past few years. This should have been done so you would’ve have known that you perhaps had the beginings of heart problems. Alot of us even with having had the Muga Scan can develop heart problems in the future [usually 4-5 years later] according to the reading material they given you prior to begining treatments. But the higher the extraction rate from your scan results, the lower or higher your risk might be in relation to heart problems in the future. You’ve also mentioned some medical facilities in Texas, that from everything I’ve heard are some the very best this country has to offer. M.D Anderson, Herman Hospital,and the others you named. Many people that have posted to several bc news groups over the last 4-5 years have said they considered themselves fortunate to have had these medical [cancer] centers available to them. Long time poster to WebMd’s message boards had all of her care there several years ago and still posts occassionally to give us updates. I’m sorry you’ve not had the care you should’ve gotten when you were first aware that something wasn’t right. But! that doesn’t automatically make every doctor, every hospital, and every technician evil and sloppy in regards to their work. I’m fully aware that medical care is not what it should be in some areas, but that doesn’t mean that everyone should be distrustful of their doctors and hospital staff. I’m also sure that if you didn’t have all the other stuff going on in your life that you tell us about, it probably has made everything else seem less then adequate. Then again, there are some people that are never happy, no matter what’s going on in their lives. And I’m afraid to say that this is the way you come across in your posts. And when we’ve tried to be supportive to you in the past, and make suggestion after suggestion about getting things done, you’ve attacked us if we didn’t see things your way. I can’t blame anyone for not wanting to help you, if you conduct yourself in real life as you do in here. My grandmother always told us "God helps those who help themselves" Things are not as we would want them to be for alot of us,in regards to after effects of chemo and various treatments, but we do the best we can without taking it out on innocent people, who have absolutely ZIP to do with our personal/private troubles. As I’ve said in the past and you’ve attacked me for saying this…Take care. God bless. I do hope things get better for you, so you can live a little more comfortably.  I truly hope someday you can see that we’re trying to help you and not attqack you, but as you’ve said in the past yourself, it’s a "discussion group and not everyones going to agree all the time, that’s what this is all about, free and open debate" [this is not a direct quote just a general gist of what your posts have contained at times] Attack if you must, I’m just happy to be alive and see each new day as a gift, and life’s to short to be this b*tchy all the time. We all have problems. My MIL passed away on Jan 18th. My father passed away less 3 weeks later on Feb 6th, after more then 3 weeks in the hospital. Gene’s uncle died the day after my father. So you see things have not been all that good here, but we’re moving on with strength and our faith in God. And btw I’m not a "KKK Christian" annie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ECHOcardiogram Does Work It’s like an ultrasound of the heart. Heart Tests That Do NOT Work When you go to an MD, most will try to use you as a cash cow, ….. will try to churn you or your insurance company for maximum money, for as many years as possible. It’s NOT about your getting any legitimate health care. The heart-type tests the docs will do, which do NOT show heart damage, …. even when you’re in congestive heart failure, when your lungs are full or fluid, & when you’re drowning are: Blood oxygen levels: This is something they clip on your finger. Then they say, if your blood oxygen levels are good, then nothing can be wrong, & they refuse to do further rtesting. This it TOTAL BS. EKG (?): This is the machine whose leads they attack to your chest, & get a print-out. They use this test to justify, their refusal to do legtimate testing. The EKG still shows nothing, when you are in congestive heart failure, drowning, dying. MUGA: Shows nothing. Blood pressure: Shows nothing wrong when you are in congestive heart failure. Blood tests: Usually show nothing wrong, when you are in congestive heart failure. CAT scan: Usually shows nothing wrong, no matter what is wrong, even huge hematomas (internal bleeding), huge cancerous lumps, strokes, etc. PET scan: Ditto. Nothing. It seems that the ONLY test that will show major congestive heart failure, is the ECHO, echocardiogram. You have to ask for this test, & keep insisting on it, to ever get it. Even though I had major congestive heart failure, it took from Monday at the ER, to Friday to get an ECHO done, …… to confirm how bad the heart damage is, & my need for medical care for it. In Texas & Louisiana, there is no emergency care, no matter how bad your condition, …… & it’s a constant job/work, to try to find & get any legitimate medical care of any kind. Most docs here in East Texas & West Louisiana, will work very hard to see you get no legitimate medical care. The ER doc in Longview, didn’t tell me what CHF was. After I was wheeled back to my truck, I read that it was Congestive Heart Failure. The health care in Texas & Louisiana, is so extremely sub-standard, that most docs seem to work overtime trying to make sure most patients don’t survive, & can never fight back, sue them. The laws have been changed here, to overly protect the doctors, regardless. It’s a rip-off, fraud. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ve also mentioned some medical facilities in Texas, that from everything I’ve heard are some the very best this country has to offer. M.D Anderson, Herman Hospital,and the others you named. Many people that have posted to several bc news groups over the last 4-5 years have said they considered themselves fortunate to have had these medical [cancer] centers available to them. Long time poster to WebMd’s message boards had all of her care there several years ago and still posts occassionally to give us updates. I’m sorry you’ve not had the care you should’ve gotten when you were first aware that something wasn’t right. But! that doesn’t automatically make every doctor, every hospital, and every technician evil and sloppy in regards to their work. I’m fully aware that medical care is not what it should be in some areas, but that doesn’t mean that everyone should be distrustful of their doctors and hospital staff. I’m also sure that if you didn’t have all the other stuff going on in your life that you tell us about, it probably has made everything else seem less then adequate. Then again, there are some people that are never happy, no matter what’s going on in their lives. And I’m afraid to say that this is the way you come across in your posts. And when we’ve tried to be supportive to you in the past, and make suggestion after suggestion about getting things done, you’ve attacked us if we didn’t see things your way. I can’t blame anyone for not wanting to help you, if you conduct yourself in real life as you do in here. My grandmother always told us "God helps those who help themselves" Things are not as we would want them to be for alot of us,in regards to after effects of chemo and various treatments, but we do the best we can without taking it out on innocent people, who have absolutely ZIP to do with our personal/private troubles. We all have problems.

Well said, Annie. Mary

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The Liar Docs I just got a phone call from the cardiologist’s office, & they scheduled a heart cath for tomorrow, Friday. When I said that I was too sick & weak to do that tomorrow, & would have to wait until I was strong enough to make the long drive to Tyler & do it, …… I was informed that I’d have to be driven there by someone else. I informed the doctor up-front (last Friday), that I had no one to help, ….. was in severe poverty conditions (hauling & toting water, no A/C), ….. was in danger from birth-family abuse (partly due to their robbing trust funds), ….. was in danger from the corrupt DAs, judges, sheriff & such here, had no safety & protection, ….. that I had dogs to care for, responsibilities, ……. …. & that he (the cardiologist) needed to be very truthful with me about the heart cath, & about any treatments, ….. because he’d put my life & that of my pets, my ability to survive in this hell-hole-sewer of a community, ….. in serious jeopardy if he didn’t, if he disregarded what I said. I was reluctant to say this, & tried to be as brief as possible, ….. but tried to get the message across, that he needed to be truthful about the heart-cath & treatments he was suggesting, …… about the seriousness of his being honest with me, & the harm he would do if he weren’t. So many docs have now lied & done harm, that there’s no trust up-front. Either the doc proves truthful, or that’s it. Most docs here have a HUGE problem in dealing with truth, facts, …… in being practical, rational, logical, ……. in choosing to help (not further harm!) the patients. And most can’t re-focus, can Not do the right thing, no matter what. Somehow, they’re programmed to harm. It’s like dealing this total jack-a*s doctor (surgeon) in Houston, at I went to him for the neck injuries, but he demanded I let him do back surgery on multiple discs, & tried to force this. [I'd been referred to him as being the best neck injury specialist in Houston, which proved a lie. He was a nasty, sadistic, incompetent shill for the universities.] He assured me that I’d be OK right after surgery, …… be able to get up immediately afterwards, get a bus back to East Texas, …… be able to tote water OK & such. And then he stood there, smirked & snickered. He inspired no confidence whatsoever. He was looking for victims for the UT students to practice on, then dump the mangled bodies. that this sucked off his profits so he didn’t believe in it, …… that the big money was in the surgery, which was all he’d do. He said that he cut people open, then looked to see what was wrong, what he might want to fix. Since my spine was injured top to bottom, this didn’t sound good, reasonable. which seems to be what UT, Baylor, LSU, A&M (Scott & White in Temple) look for & value in profs in their medical schools. The worst mindset & morals possible, and/or whoever can bring in the most grant money from the PHARMA companies. At the universities, the docs will lie, cheat & steal, to get whatever bodies they can, for the students to practice on. It’s vile, disgusting beyond belief. for nor wanted. When a doc lies up-front, it’s important to drop him & run. ever met. In Texas, because things are so incredibly bad & corrupt here, the docs/etc. want to label people as being mentally ill, ….. as another weapon to use against them, to do harm. This is also another excuse to push drugs for the PHARMA companies, INSTEAD of offering any legitimate medical testing or care for injuries, breast cancer & such. When the med student was wasting my time (I was exhausted, in severe pain, there only for testing & diagnosis of neck injuries), …… questioning me about dates, politicians now in office & such, ….. ….. the student didn’t even know that Bush was governor, or that Rick Perry was lt. gov. He didn’t know the answers to the questions he was asking! And he said my answers were wrong. He tried to mark me down as being Not OK, because he said I should have known that Bush was no longer in office, that he was no longer president. It took a lot to explaining to try to convince him, that I never said Bush was still president. I said that Dubya Bush was governor. As far as I can tell, there’s no way to re-focus a determinedly-dumb & dastardly mind & mindset, or to convince it of anything. These are the forever-stupid. And UT actually lets these total dumb-f*cks cut people open, & cut up their spines. ?! Last Friday, the cardiologist assured me, that I could drive to Tyler in the morning, get the heart cath or whatever done, then drive home in the afternoon. That didn’t sound right, which is why I asked about it here, if it were true. It’s obviously not true. I’ve learned that once a doctor lies, & tries to put you in further jeopardy, further danger, ….. it’s best to walk away. It’s a very disgusting & alarming experience each time, when I realized I’ve stepped in more doc-doo, been lied to again & betrayed. I’ve asked the GP/FP doctor, for referral to another cardiologist, who will hear what I say, answer honestly, work with me, …… instead of churning my insurance for $$$, & trying to further harm & handicap me. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions PS  Last Friday, the doc told me to go by his office & get a copy of his report. When I spoke with his assistant this morning, she didn’t seem to know anything about this. As soon as I can get up & go to his office, I’ll see if he lied about this too.

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Correction: Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  IF Su had a long term personal Dr. (internist, family practice , etc.) they would be able to identify problems as they came up.  I see my internist every 6 months.  He treats me for high blood pressure, and has for several years.  He knows me fairly well.  Believe me, he notices weight gain or loss and asks about it.  He doesn’t hesitate to refer me if he feels a specialist could treat me better. (or for something like surgery).  He notices mood and other things.  I don’t have to fight with him.  Back in 2000 Susan published on her web page, a list of about 100 Drs., therapists, hospitals and other institutions that she would not recommend anyone using.  And she directed people to that page.  That was before she was diagnosed with cancer.  I imagine that number has increased to about 200 by now.  I cannot imagine that any Dr, within a 150 mile radius of her, would take her on as a patient.  Susan does not believe that she has any responsibility in any of this.  It’s always the Drs., the pharm co, the govn, the DA, the police, her family, (and now even her dogs!) anyone but her. Don’t misunderstand, I hate to hear about this.  It’s not something I would wish on my worse enemy.  But, I’m really, really sick and tired of hearing about how everything is someone elses fault.

Thanks for your information and thoughts. Looks like she’s got a doctor and a test coming up. I have to bow out of this discussion. I wish you well. J

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Su, Liver and kidney failure is only in very advanced CHF, and I dare say the treatment for CHF has improved in the past 20 years due to ace inhibitors, surgery and transplant. Have you seen a Cardiologist yet ? Do you have a good primary care physician available? Chances are this is not related to your breast cancer issues. Alex

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Su, Liver and kidney failure is only in very advanced CHF, and I dare say the treatment for CHF has improved in the past 20 years due to ace inhibitors, surgery and transplant. Have you seen a Cardiologist yet ? Do you have a good primary care physician available? Chances are this is not related to your breast cancer issues. Alex I’m seeing a new GP/FP whom I’m trying to trust. I’ve known him for a few years, he’s very bright, well-trained, helpful, ….. but he is a part of the medical community here, & previously, he did refuse to help with the the injuries, ….. which is frightening, alarming. I’m hopeful he will do his best for me this time, will help me all he can. Wednesday, he referred me to a cardiologist whom I saw on Friday, & who seems to be OK. He acted rational & reasonable. I said I thought the CHF was caused by injuries, & was probably aggravated by cancer treatments. The cardiologist thought the cancer treatments did the damage. It’s major congestive heart failure. He said "the worst" & transplant. Major leakage, most of heart not working at all. I’m trying very hard to trust these guys. If I stop posting, then I was probably betrayed again. This time, things are so critical that I might not survive, ….. even though I’ve every intention of surviving regardless. I’m tough, & I’ve an intense need to work for & get some justice, to help change things here. I never thought I’d have heart failure, because I’d worked to stay as healthy as possible, …..  & even after being so seriously injured in Jan. 1998, I could swim for hours without getting winded or panting, that is, a few years or so later after I’d recovered enough to swim. Also, there’s no heart disease in my family. The cancer drugs must be super-duper toxic, to cause this much damage. It’s very wrong of the cancer docs, not to test for heart damage before & during chemo, when the drugs are this bad, toxic, lethal. If I could go back, I would NOT trust the cancer docs, their BS & scare tactics at all. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions PS  There’s no one to care for the dogs but me. [And NO there's no help of any kind in this god-forsaken hell-hole of a KKKChristian community. None. Some people say they're scared to death of the bad DA, judges, police chief & such, & are fearful of getting targeted, robbed & harmed like I am.] At the hospital, after they run the tube, do testing, angioplasty or whatever, ….. I was told I can drive home that day & function OK. Since I don’t have running water, will it be OK to tote water that day too, or should I try to prepare ahead some, such as double water buckets for the dogs? I can’t afford any more lies or surprises, any more incompetence, slackardness & meanness on the part of medical & hospital workers. For me, this has been & is life & death. Will I be able to get up & function, after the hospital testing & treatment? I’m glad I’m Not having the work done at Good Shepherd in Longview, because that proved the worst after the botched port-a-cath surgery in early 2002.   Couldn’t get my meals (the staff would say "waif for them" & snicker). Couldn’t get a referral to a specialist. Couldn’t get medical care. Couldn’t get a hematoma diagnosed, or get treatment (cold pack) for it, as it continued to swell. Couldn’t get a transfer. The nursing staff was mean, snarky, snickering. seem to close rank & try to insure, that you don’t get any legitimate medical care or help, not through the ER or as an inpatient. After many days of that sadistic BS, I finally had to check out & drive hundreds of miles to Houston, to get the hematoma diagnosed, & be told to use a cold pack to stop the swelling. The cardio doc told me, that he’ll see that doesn’t happen this time.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Susan,  You’ve been complaining of shortmess of breath since you found the internet.  You stated that this has been going on since 1998 or 99, well before your cancer treatments. You worried about chemo & bronchitis in ‘02, you gained 15 lbs in 2 weeks in ‘03 (someone suggested that it sounded like CHF and you should go to your Dr., did you?).  In Jan ‘05 you said you gained 20 lbs in 2 months.  In March of ‘05 (3 months ago) you cancelled an echocardiogram ordered by your lung Dr.  I guess you never bothered to re-schedule.  You said these things on the "abuse" newsgroup.  This has been years in developing (at least since 1998).  But since you have alienated every Dr. within a 100 miles of your home, you didn’t have a Dr left to call who would believe your problem. In fairness, I have to add that (many) doctors don’t like complex patients (multiple medical problems), it’s too complicated for their brains/time. They prefer patients who don’t have side effects to sort out whether it’s a symptom of something else. So they can move on to the next patient and bill insurance (or whatever) for their consult/treatment. Whoever suggested the CHF deserves a medal. Was that this newsgroup or the abuse one? They might have been able to slow the progress down The medications for cardiomyopathy were inexpensive and no side effects, but I don’t know if that’s what Sue has. If there’s a doctor problem, she’ll probably have to track back pre 1998. I wonder if she had a "family physician" (general practitioner)…who is supposed to follow the patient longer term and weed through various symptoms. I think she can start fresh by taking her test results to a heart specialist. But based on my experience with cat and CHF, it’s complex. 2 heart medicines (the one for cardiomyopathy and another one), try at steroid, watch for kidney or liver failure. We had to stop the steroid. I hope Sue’s treatment is less complicated. J

J, you are correct.  IF Su had a long term personal Dr. (internist, family practice , etc.) they would be able to identify problems as they came up.  I see my internist every 6 months.  He treats me for high blood pressure, and has for several years.  He knows me fairly well.  Believe me, he notices weight gain or loss and asks about it.  He doesn’t hesitate to refer me if he feels a specialist could treat me better. (or for something like surgery).  He notices mood and other things.  I don’t have to fight with him.  Back in 2000 Susan published on her web page, a list of about 100 Drs., therapists, hospitals and other institutions that she would not recommend anyone using.  And she directed people to that page.  That was before she was diagnosed with cancer.  I imagine that number has increased to about 200 by now.  I cannot imagine that any Dr, within a 150 mile radius of her, would take her on as a patient.  Susan does not believe that she has any responsibility in any of this.  It’s always the Drs., the pharm co, the govn, the DA, the police, her family, (and now even her dogs!) anyone but her. Don’t misunderstand, I hate to hear about this.  It’s not something I would wish on my worse enemy.  But, I’m really, really sick and tired of hearing about how everything is someone elses fault.

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There seems a lot of BS written about medical stuff. However, experience is one of the best teachers, & I’ve learned a lot from it. CHF can happen very quickly, when you fall, hit pavement very hard & slide. It is my experience, that the doctors will ignore whatever signs there are (broken bones, concussion, injured discs, dislocated hip, other injuries & damage, congestion, difficulty swallowing & breathing, gas, running bowels & bladder, etc.), …… & refuse to order appropriate testing, refuse to diagnose, ….. until you’re basically dead from CHF or whatever.   This is the Texas & Louisiana way, which seems mostly set up to deal with & get rid of the uninsured and/or indigent, …… but which has now spread to cover most, including those with good insurance. The same was true of breast cancer, & my lump was about 6 by 6 by 2 inches big, before any doc would acknowledge & diagnose it. Finally, a medical student did, even though he said his profs told him not to. The breast was turning a yellowish-orange by then. When the docs do this, act this ugly, sadistic, cruel, ….. then they’ll try to add to the damage, as well as define the bad game for others docs, …. by saying & writing in their reports: "You’re not OK. You’re mentally ill. You should be drugged."  ??? Docs do this to fellow doctors. One female doctor in Longview was repeatedly refused testing, diagnosis & care, & told she was imagining things & should take psych drugs, …… until her cancer was very advanced. Once it was diagnosed at the ER on Monday, I then had to fight very hard (for a week) to get the echocardiogram done, to confirm the CHF & get further appts scheduled. Before surgery in late 2001, & before chemo in 2002, the doctors should have ordered an echocardiogram, to make sure the congestion/etc from injuries, wasn’t heart related, …… but they didn’t. The oncologist should have ordered ECHO testing during chemo, to make sure heart damage wasn’t being done, …… but he didn’t. After chemo, when I was so sick & weak, the oncologist medically deserted/abandoned me. He’d lied to me about further medical care. Earlier this year, when I finally got the truck fixed & could get to Longview, I was VERY ill.   I kept several appts, including one with a pulmonary specialist, who observed my extreme difficulties breathing, & told me he’d monitor it each year, to see how much worse it got. ?! [Each time, I will keep as many appts as I can before collapsing. Then I'll rest up, replan, & start again. Most doctors make this process as difficult, time & energy consuming, & expensive as possible.] At the pulmonary specialist, I asked for & got an ECHO scheduled, but had to cancel the appt, because I was VERY sick & weak. Then the vet notiffied me that my dogs would be put down if I didn’t claim them in ten days, …… & that my Mom, siblings, the police chief, corrupt DA, etc., would not be investigated for animal cruelty, for the harm they’d done to my pets. Since my possessions had been stolen & burned in these crimes, by these low-life thieves & thugs, these vermin from hell, ….. I had to stretch an SS check to cover hundreds of dollars in new equipment, try to clear the yard, etc. I was VERY sick & weak, but managed to do it. The dogs are alive, & two had sets of puppies. The third one had her puppies, right before I got the dogs back, so her puppies all died at the pound. The dogs would never have become pregnant, had these sadistic crimes not happened, …… were the DA not a sleazy, low-life skank ho, who gets off on harming people & getting away with it, ….. a snickering, sniveling idiot. So far, I can get no investigation into public corruption in Texas, because NO GOVT AGENCY works in Texas, none does its job, nor will the FBI. Texas (esp. East Texas) is truly a sewer community, the lowest of the low, …… mostly because of Crime-Rule & its enforcers (the BibleBelt hypocrite-type, blind-faith, hate & harm cult of KKKChristians, ….. who will stand back snicker & watch as people are being harmed to death, and/or join in the harming, murdering & destruction "in God’s name". ?!). It’s extremely difficult to survive in the crime-ridden communities of East Texas & West Louisiana, ….. mostly because of the public corruption, & the KKKChristian-type enforcers of crime/abuse/meanness (aka evil to the bone & proud of it. hypocrites.). There is a determined-dumbness & dastardliness here, a toxicity, that can sink (destroy) just about anything & anyone. I was hopeful of helping to change this for the better, but am losing hope. It’s probably best to move (run!) from states & areas that are as bad as this, …… because of the gang/group mentality here, & the basic/primitive nature of most humans to fit into the group, to conform to it, regardless. Chimp-style bonding & aggression. Monkey see, monkey do. It’s a no-win situation. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

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Susan,  You’ve been complaining of shortmess of breath since you found the internet.  You stated that this has been going on since 1998 or 99, well before your cancer treatments. You worried about chemo & bronchitis in ‘02, you gained 15 lbs in 2 weeks in ‘03 (someone suggested that it sounded like CHF and you should go to your Dr., did you?).  In Jan ‘05 you said you gained 20 lbs in 2 months.  In March of ‘05 (3 months ago) you cancelled an echocardiogram ordered by your lung Dr.  I guess you never bothered to re-schedule.  You said these things on the "abuse" newsgroup.  This has been years in developing (at least since 1998).  But since you have alienated every Dr. within a 100 miles of your home, you didn’t have a Dr left to call who would believe your problem.

In fairness, I have to add that (many) doctors don’t like complex patients (multiple medical problems), it’s too complicated for their brains/time. They prefer patients who don’t have side effects to sort out whether it’s a symptom of something else. So they can move on to the next patient and bill insurance (or whatever) for their consult/treatment. Whoever suggested the CHF deserves a medal. Was that this newsgroup or the abuse one? They might have been able to slow the progress down The medications for cardiomyopathy were inexpensive and no side effects, but I don’t know if that’s what Sue has. If there’s a doctor problem, she’ll probably have to track back pre 1998. I wonder if she had a "family physician" (general practitioner)…who is supposed to follow the patient longer term and weed through various symptoms. I think she can start fresh by taking her test results to a heart specialist. But based on my experience with cat and CHF, it’s complex. 2 heart medicines (the one for cardiomyopathy and another one), try at steroid, watch for kidney or liver failure. We had to stop the steroid. I hope Sue’s treatment is less complicated. J

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Susan,  You’ve been complaining of shortmess of breath since you found the internet.  You stated that this has been going on since 1998 or 99, well before your cancer treatments. You worried about chemo & bronchitis in ‘02, you gained 15 lbs in 2 weeks in ‘03 (someone suggested that it sounded like CHF and you should go to your Dr., did you?).  In Jan ‘05 you said you gained 20 lbs in 2 months.  In March of ‘05 (3 months ago) you cancelled an echocardiogram ordered by your lung Dr.  I guess you never bothered to re-schedule.  You said these things on the "abuse" newsgroup.  This has been years in developing (at least since 1998).  But since you have alienated every Dr. within a 100 miles of your home, you didn’t have a Dr left to call who would believe your problem.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ECHOcardiogram Does Work It’s like an ultrasound of the heart. Heart Tests That Do NOT Work When you go to an MD, most will try to use you as a cash cow, ….. will try to churn you or your insurance company for maximum money, for as many years as possible. It’s NOT about your getting any legitimate health care. The heart-type tests the docs will do, which do NOT show heart damage, …. even when you’re in congestive heart failure, when your lungs are full or fluid, & when you’re drowning are: Blood oxygen levels: This is something they clip on your finger. Then they say, if your blood oxygen levels are good, then nothing can be wrong, & they refuse to do further rtesting. This it TOTAL BS. EKG (?): This is the machine whose leads they attack to your chest, & get a print-out. They use this test to justify, their refusal to do legtimate testing. The EKG still shows nothing, when you are in congestive heart failure, drowning, dying. MUGA: Shows nothing. Blood pressure: Shows nothing wrong when you are in congestive heart failure. Blood tests: Usually show nothing wrong, when you are in congestive heart failure. CAT scan: Usually shows nothing wrong, no matter what is wrong, even huge hematomas (internal bleeding), huge cancerous lumps, strokes, etc. PET scan: Ditto. Nothing. It seems that the ONLY test that will show major congestive heart failure, is the ECHO, echocardiogram. You have to ask for this test, & keep insisting on it, to ever get it. Even though I had major congestive heart failure, it took from Monday at the ER, to Friday to get an ECHO done, …… to confirm how bad the heart damage is, & my need for medical care for it. In Texas & Louisiana, there is no emergency care, no matter how bad your condition, …… & it’s a constant job/work, to try to find & get any legitimate medical care of any kind. Most docs here in East Texas & West Louisiana, will work very hard to see you get no legitimate medical care. The ER doc in Longview, didn’t tell me what CHF was. After I was wheeled back to my truck, I read that it was Congestive Heart Failure. The health care in Texas & Louisiana, is so extremely sub-standard, that most docs seem to work overtime trying to make sure most patients don’t survive, & can never fight back, sue them. The laws have been changed here, to overly protect the doctors, regardless. It’s a rip-off, fraud. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

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ECHOcardiogram Does Work It’s like an ultrasound of the heart.

CHF usually develops slowly. You may go for years without symptoms, and the symptoms tend to get worse with time. This slow onset and progression of CHF is caused by your heart’s own efforts to deal with its gradual weakening. Your heart tries to make up for this weakening by enlarging and by forcing itself to pump faster to move more blood through your body. Risk factors for CHF include     * Previous heart attacks     * Coronary artery disease     * High blood pressure (hypertension)     * Irregular heartbeat (arrhythmia)     * Heart valve disease (especially of the aortic and mitral valves)     * Cardiomyopathy (disease of the heart muscle)     * Congenital heart defects (defects you are born with)     * Alcohol and drug abuse As heart failure progresses, your heart becomes weaker and symptoms begin. In addition to those listed above, here are some other symptoms of CHF:     * You have trouble breathing or lying flat because you feel short of breath.     * You feel tired, weak, and are unable to exercise or perform physical activities.     * You have weight gain from excess fluid.     * You feel chest pain.     * You do not feel like eating, or you feel like you have indigestion.     * Your neck veins are swollen.     * Your skin is cold and sweaty.     * Your pulse is fast or irregular.     * You feel restless, confused, and find that your attention span and memory are not as good as they were. How is CHF diagnosed? Most doctors can make a tentative diagnosis of CHF from the presence of edema and shortness of breath.     * With a stethoscope, a doctor can listen to your chest for the crackling sounds of fluid in the lungs, the distinct sound of faulty valves (heart murmur), or the presence of a very quick heartbeat. By tapping on your chest, doctors can find out if fluid has built up in your chest.     * A chest x-ray can show if your heart is enlarged and if you have fluid in and around your lungs.     * Electrocardiography (ECG or EKG) can be used to check for an irregular heartbeat (arrhythmia) and stress on the heart. It can also show your doctor if you have had a heart attack.     * Echocardiography can be used to see valve function, heart wall motion, and overall heart size. http://www.riparia.org/chest_pain.htm Congestive Heart failure (CHF): CHF is a failure of the heart to be able to pump as much blood as is demanded of it and the blood backs up. If this is new, it is often triggered by a heart attack, which may have been "silent". CHF may also develop slowly over time, or suddenly in the setting of some physical stress such as severe infection or high blood pressure that is out of control. Typical symptoms include: abnormal shortness of breath with exertion, worsening breathing if you lie down, (so there’s a desire to sleep seated or propped up on a few pillows), waking up at night short of breath, and needing to get up at night to urinate more than once . As both sides of the heart progressively fail you also get swelling in the legs. Sudden severe attacks have extreme trouble breathing, the victim wants to sit bolt upright and there may be pink frothy sputum. Listening to the lungs there is usually a wet crackling sound.[] I checked your Google postings. (in 2002) You were tired (see above) after surgery and during taxol. Many have now switched to taxotere, because taxol is too toxic.  My guess is that you’ve had the causative condition for quite a while and were lucky to survive the surgery.  Someone missed the boat way back, but then they’d possibly never done your breast surgery. In 2002, during Adriamycin, you were complaining of pain when breathing. (see above) As I recall, you were sleeping in your truck, so you wouldn’t have noticed shortness of breath lying flat. Here’s what happened with my cat. She had dental surgery and anesthetic but for some reason they had to give her more anesthetic (ie longer surgery). Then she fell and snapped a ligament. In preparation for surgery, her vet listened to her heart and got lucky, heard a "gallop" (which I think is rapid heartbeat, which can be mistaken for a stress reaction).  The vet surgeon did the same heart listen and heard the same thing. Her leg surgery was cancelled and she had an ultrasound and it was discovered that she had cardiomyopathy. My vet saved me money by listening and confirming no fluids collecting around the heart (no wet crackling sounds), so she had 3 years on aspirin and a heart med that slowed down the thickening of that part of her heart. Heart problems are sneaky. You’ve had so much happen in your recent years, that it was so easy to blame the weather, your dogs (fatique), your sleeping situation, your home situation, your various relatives stressors and nobody thought to check you for heart problems. I’m sorry. Try to find out which heart "risk" it is. I think you’re too young for valve problem and I don’t think you mentioned it as a possible surgery, so it must be one of the other "risks" (mentioned above). (no, I’m not denying that any of the meds that you took worsened the condition, but I still think you’ve had this problem pre-breast-diagnosis, possibly many, many years).  That first website is in Texas. I hope your insurance can get you there, so that you can obtain the best of care. J

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ECHOcardiogram Does Work It’s like an ultrasound of the heart. Heart Tests That Do NOT Work When you go to an MD, most will try to use you as a cash cow, ….. will try to churn you or your insurance company for maximum money, for as many years as possible. It’s NOT about your getting any legitimate health care. The heart-type tests the docs will do, which do NOT show heart damage, …. even when you’re in congestive heart failure, when your lungs are full or fluid, & when you’re drowning are: Blood oxygen levels: This is something they clip on your finger. Then they say, if your blood oxygen levels are good, then nothing can be wrong, & they refuse to do further rtesting. This it TOTAL BS. EKG (?): This is the machine whose leads they attack to your chest, & get a print-out. They use this test to justify, their refusal to do legtimate testing. The EKG still shows nothing, when you are in congestive heart failure, drowning, dying. MUGA: Shows nothing. Blood pressure: Shows nothing wrong when you are in congestive heart failure. Blood tests: Usually show nothing wrong, when you are in congestive heart failure. CAT scan: Usually shows nothing wrong, no matter what is wrong, even huge hematomas (internal bleeding), huge cancerous lumps, strokes, etc. PET scan: Ditto. Nothing. It seems that the ONLY test that will show major congestive heart failure, is the ECHO, echocardiogram. You have to ask for this test, & keep insisting on it, to ever get it. Even though I had major congestive heart failure, it took from Monday at the ER, to Friday to get an ECHO done, …… to confirm how bad the heart damage is, & my need for medical care for it. In Texas & Louisiana, there is no emergency care, no matter how bad your condition, …… & it’s a constant job/work, to try to find & get any legitimate medical care of any kind. Most docs here in East Texas & West Louisiana, will work very hard to see you get no legitimate medical care. The ER doc in Longview, didn’t tell me what CHF was. After I was wheeled back to my truck, I read that it was Congestive Heart Failure. The health care in Texas & Louisiana, is so extremely sub-standard, that most docs seem to work overtime trying to make sure most patients don’t survive, & can never fight back, sue them. The laws have been changed here, to overly protect the doctors, regardless. It’s a rip-off, fraud. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

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